Digging in "big time" into my Hyundai this week

[Mainia]

2018 Hyundai Kona 1.6T AWD tuner car ( look at my signature link below) 76,000 HARD miles. Hyundai put in mechanical lifters in the 1.6T JUST because they are CHEAP, they say performance engine HA HA. GTI and Golf R have hydraulic lifters. Enough said. They spec to check at 60,000 some have seen a need to adjust at this point too. I also want to stick in some ARP head studs and dump the OEM head bolts that are known to stretch. One for one replacement, to keep the head gasket seal, I hope. I also want to replace the high pressure fuel pump roller cam as a preventative maintenance issue. I have seen a couple rollers go bad in industrial equipment that is in my head. Cams must come out for all of these R&R. If so I will also be changing the timing chain/guides /tensioner since it is of course, CHEAP and not that robust, because I am this far.

ALL OEM parts from an online Hyundai discount parts from a known USA Hyundai dealership. Avg 20% off. I even bought a front chain cover $112 to reduce a chance of seeing Mr Murphy, worth the piece of mind. First thing is to document valve lash cold, then once the cams are out mic the cups with a new Brown & Sharpe mic as the laser etching specs are not suppose to be used because of cup wear. Once I have the new cup specs needed it is off hopefully on Monday/Tuesday to the local dealer for a next day delivery order, for all new correct speced lifter cups. Fun Fun!!!!

 

[KGMtech]

We are all looking forward to the show!

 

[circuitsmith]

....

 

[goblin]

The 3.3 gdi also comes with mechanical lifters. Never was too happy about that.

 

[Mainia]

Waiting on parts. Some valves at low limit, so I shooting for mid speced spread. 12 out 16 are getting new mechanical cups. Also going with new cam phasers too, some wear on sprockets. Should take 2-3 days for parts, lets see if my next day air fee of $170 is worth it. They most likely wont have all the parts thoughso hence 2-3 days vs 1 week.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Wow ! For a 2018 with low miles? Wow $??? I thought Hyundai's were supposed to be low maintenance, unlike the German cars?
Most of them don't need all this kinda work because if the engine goes poof, they will replace them for free.

 

[KrisZ]

Impressive work and ambition, but dang, what sort of tune are we talking about here to require such drastic preventative measures?

 

[Mainia]

Wow ! For a 2018 with low miles? Wow $??? I thought Hyundai's were supposed to be low maintenance, unlike the German cars?
Most of them don't need all this kinda work because if the engine goes poof, they will replace them for free.

They won't replace mine. I voided that warranty long ago. ( see the parts list in my signature link, they saw all that stuff when I had them put my cryoed clutch in) The only warranty I received was a $2,500 dual clutch actuator that they screwed up after the clutch install, by leaving the adj. plugs open in Minnesota winter/spring slushy roads. Can you imagine trying to fight that one if the warranty was not there. The order writer slipped up telling me about the adj. plugs were flipped open. You know Hyundai's are high maintenance, one of the top cars out there jamming rings. Hyundai spec to check the valves at 60,000 mile.

First off, do you get my comment on the mechanical lifters? I was saying Hyundai said it was a performance engine, is why they used the high maintenance mechanical lifters, which I laugh at, as it is not. YET a Golf R actually is somewhat one and they have zero issues putting in hydraulic lifters. Hyundai being cheapskates is all that is. I paid $8 per lifter cup my price. Hydraulic lifter......what $50-100 ea??? They start seeing burnt valves at 100,000 to 140,000 miles. I am doing it now that I am working and have the money that I won't have it like I do now. Of course it's a Hyundai, as long as the engine Gods hold it together. The timing chain is the size of a bicycle chain. Is it stretched ??? ( I am going out to compare old and new) ............ 4.5mm stretched, not bad. Cam phasers, did they need to be replaced for the average person NO. For $220 for both OEM phaser, both chain guides total $24, timing chain $49 heck yeah. I forgot to add too, it doesn't hurt to get a new oil pump "for a Hyundai" that comes in the cam chain cover.

A good half of all the Hyundai/Kia tanked engines I think are complete lack of maintenance, as they replaced engines for oil use, when it is just a jammed ring issue if caught early. I just can't believe my engine is still around to do this after a massive LSPI event when new, then add the thrashing and Stage 2 tune. I want to track it, at BIR, but I already blow up a car up there at a Porsche Club Invitational in my early years and took a first place in my slot, when I had 2 cars up there. The Hyundai would not make it. Surly not setup with bad cooling of engine/engine oil cooling.

 

[Mainia]

I was watching the guy on YouTube who breaks down junk yard engines to see failure points. A Honda 1.5T (CRV and Civic) came on my feed. So I wondered what size timing cam chain Honda uses in their smallest turbo engine. Does it have a bicycle chain, like Hyundai1.6T? The best I can tell they are the same sized chain. The Honda has 3 extra chain plates, and 3 times wider sprocket area.

Nope,

Honda figured, it's going to 300,000 miles, lets build it to make it there.

Hyundai figured, the engine would blow up before it needed a chain.

Honda 1.5T = Robust. 9 load points on the the chain pin.

Hyundai 1.6T = Not Robust. 4 load points on the chain pin.


Honda 1.5T Chain

Hyundai 1.6T Chain

 

[Mainia]

I guess the version of the Honda 1.5T I posted above it the second version of the Honda 1.5T . Go figure, the first version of the Honda 1.5T motor ( junkyard tanked motor related video I might add ) showed up on my feed. So I must post that picture too since I am comparing. It appears the 1st ver has a smaller chain, still way better then Hyundai. Hyundai's bare minimum should have been THIS sized chain in the picture. Then I would of given Hyundai a pass on their horrid timing chain choice, for their non performance speced car.

 

[Hohn]

Funny how the more we abandoned timing belts because of the "hassle" of 100k service intervals, we're discovering the using them was the right choice all along.

Honda's original instinct to use a dry belt that you can service every 100k was, in hindsight, the right call all along. The tensioners manage all stretch. It's completely enclosed and protected from elements. No need for crisis management on chain wear issues.

 

[tcp71]

Mazda skyactive chain is also the "bicycle" type and known to hold up without issue.

 

[KrisZ]

Funny how the more we abandoned timing belts because of the "hassle" of 100k service intervals, we're discovering the using them was the right choice all along.

Honda's original instinct to use a dry belt that you can service every 100k was, in hindsight, the right call all along. The tensioners manage all stretch. It's completely enclosed and protected from elements. No need for crisis management on chain wear issues.

This has nothing to do with instincts or hunches. These are simple engineering decisions and both solutions have their positives and negatives. The timing chain on that engine looks like a bicycle chain, so no wonder it is not strong and stretches. A timing belt can also be messed up, just like with Ford's brilliant idea to keep their belts submerged in oil.

 

[Lawnman23]

The HK Smartstream 3.5 gets the "silent" chain.

There are pros/cons to both types.

 

[Mainia]

Funny how the more we abandoned timing belts because of the "hassle" of 100k service intervals, we're discovering the using them was the right choice all along.

Honda's original instinct to use a dry belt that you can service every 100k was, in hindsight, the right call all along. The tensioners manage all stretch. It's completely enclosed and protected from elements. No need for crisis management on chain wear issues.

I would love a nice external robust belt, for sure. But if Hyundai would of installed the chain that is on the late model Honda 1.5T, and if Hyundai did not use a Schwinn bicycle chain, I would have zero issue here. It would of all gone back in after the lash adj. For the average ho hum driver it is good enough. In a tuner car, no. But a CRV is also not a tuner car, and look at that robust chain. Hyundai just chose to go to the lowest minimal design. Also it would not be an issue if the chain in my car was the same one that is in a 2.0 liter Hyundai Kona N Series. It was build for the purpose.

I was in there doing a valve lash adjustment at 75,000 miles, and parts are relatively cheap. $350 for a complete redo of the timing chain setup, with the exception of the crank sprocket. The chain was only stretched 4.5mm and the tensioner was plenty tight. I am looking ahead to another 75,000 miles of thrashing it, IF it doesn't blow up. I was not going to replace the water pump, but it kept bugging me for $100 for an oem one, why not get it over now and never touch it again. S when I ordered my new cam cups I ordered the water pump too.

Many of you would not have changed it out, I just know I am keeping the car, so I want it in tip top form (till it blows up). You pay to play in the high performance game of automobiles, I know that and all my costs are because of that. Even my clutch job at 65,000 miles. If I drove like a grandpa it would most likely never need a clutch even at 150,000 miles. I just bring it up because it is a Hyundai and I am not afraid of bashing the obvious.

 

[Mainia]

The HK Smartstream 3.5 gets the "silent" chain.

There are pros/cons to both types.

View attachment 348118

Look how thick those links are, that is a beefy chain. I will search for the SmartStream 1.6T chain and see if the new designed 1.6T engines are beefed up.

 

[goblin]

Funny how the more we abandoned timing belts because of the "hassle" of 100k service intervals, we're discovering the using them was the right choice all along.

Honda's original instinct to use a dry belt that you can service every 100k was, in hindsight, the right call all along. The tensioners manage all stretch. It's completely enclosed and protected from elements. No need for crisis management on chain wear issues.

Every catastrophic failure of a snapped belt and every guy who ever had to cough $3500 for a belt service on a V6 at 100k miles would beg to disagree with this.

Apples to apples a correctly designed chain will smack a correctly designed belt every time, and will give at least a little warning before failing in regular driving.

 

[Mainia]

A cool thing happened to me at the Kia dealership today. I went in to buy a gallon of anti-freeze to get ready for the install tomorrow when my parts get here. I got there at 4:50 and parts is open till 6:00. I asked for 1 jug. He brought out one gallon jug, I said I was looking for concentrate, if they had it. The manager said the large mega dealer group forced one item for coolant and they chose premix. 55% -40F too. I said bummer, I will take 2 then. As he was going to get the other jug, he said "don't worry I will take care of you". Thinking ok, he will cut the price and I could save $5-6 buck maybe ( I use Kia coolant as it is the same as Hyundai and $5 cheaper, plus they are only 3 miles from my house). He slides both jugs to my side of the counter and says there you go, come see us again. I said do I owe you anything he said nope, just come see us again. Thanked him a couple of times. WOW, what nice guy. It could be they just got done building this new dealership and tore down their old one next door and the old place will be their lot too. It was quite hard to get to the dealership with added road work/fencing/rock driveway and cars parked all over the place . ??

 

[researcher]

@Mainia ok I could hear this story again and again!! Oh wait, I've already read it a couple of times!
You MUST start playing the lottery with that kind of blessings! whoa!

 

[Hohn]

Every catastrophic failure of a snapped belt and every guy who ever had to cough $3500 for a belt service on a V6 at 100k miles would beg to disagree with this.

Apples to apples a correctly designed chain will smack a correctly designed belt every time, and will give at least a little warning before failing in regular driving.

If someone is paying $3500 for a $1200 job, that's on them. I paid $1200 for the first belt job, then I DiY'd the next one. Five hours--working methodically and carefully for my first time-- and done. I could do it in 3 hours next time.

"Correctly designed" is a weasel phrase that cannot be argued against.


Timing belts serviced on schedule almost never, ever fail. There's a ton of margin in them because of the nature of the fail mode. The first Honda in our family failed from a timing belt failure-- at 274k on the original.

Owner negligence is not a design flaw.