Difference between the Motul 300v grades

[Brit33]

I saw today in the shops the 300v Motul 5w40 Power.

I have in the house 15w50 competition which is about the right oil when hot. (or a 60)

I have also used 20w60 once during a very hot summer - still was too thick on start up and I took it out soon after.

What is the difference apart from viscosity between them?

I like the thinner winter weight oils for good start ups. 5w/10w. Ideally I'd like to have 5w50 300v.
I wonder is mixing some 20w60 with 5w40 would do the trick.

Do their additive packages vary? I know that the 300v's can be mixed.

If I mix 50/50 would I get around 10w50? I think with a good HTHS as 20w60 is around 7.2!

ah I see there is a 0w40 also. But here I'd have to check.

 

[dailydriver]

Their 0W-40 300V Trophy has an HTHSV of 3.9.

I would only mix their older diester 300V with the same, and their newer Estercore 300V with the same.

The basestocks and add packs between the two ARE dissimilar enough to warrant this caution.

 

[dparm]

Motul has said you can mix the old and new.

 

[Brit33]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Motul has said you can mix the old and new.


that's good to know. They have stated you can mix any of the 300v's together. But I know here we don't get any of the new stuff yet.

If I can get the trophy 0w40 and mix it with 20w60 could be interesting.

7.5w50 maybe?
As the 20w60 has such a high HTHS i would expect the mix will maintain a good HTHS.

 

[dparm]

You can get the new stuff from tons of places -- Amazon, eBay, speed shops, etc.

 

[Brit33]

Originally Posted By: dparm
You can get the new stuff from tons of places -- Amazon, eBay, speed shops, etc.


not here I'm afraid. I'd never get it through customs.

I see this UOA has an excellent zddp level for the 5w40 300v. What's its HTHS?
I want to know if the other grades have a zddp just as high.

uoa 300v

 

[bluesubie]

5W-40 HTHS is 4.1.

http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/51783/300V%20Power%205W-40%20(GB).pdf?1329125425

What car?

-Dennis

 

[Brit33]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
5W-40 HTHS is 4.1.

http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/51783/300V%20Power%205W-40%20(GB).pdf?1329125425

What car?

-Dennis


thanks. hths bit low for mine (need at least a 5). Factory specs are 10w50. flat tappets (hydraulic)
alfa flat four 1.7 (33). same as the old alfsud engines with twin dellorto carbs.

that's why I'm thinking of mixing the 20w60 with a 0w40 or 5w40. Nice thin winter weight for good start ups when cold and for shorter trips.

15w50 is good but is fairly thick on cold start ups.

 

[CATERHAM]

You're not looking at this correctly.
It's of no concern to you in your climate whether an oil is a 0W,5W or 20W for that matter since you're not cold starting at temp's well bewlow freezing.
If you want an oil that's as light as possible on start-up you want an oil with a high viscosity index.

The 300V 15W-50 is thick on start-up because it has a fairly low VI of only 154 and of course it has a high HTHSV of 5.33cP. If you're happy with the viscosity at hot operating temp's the only way to lower the viscosity on start-up is to raise the VI of the oil without lowering the HTHSV.
300V 20W-60 has a higher 172 VI as does 300V 5W-40 (176) and 0W-40 (174). So blending those oils will keep the VI in the 174 area and the oil will be somewhat lighter on start-up vs the 15W-50.

 

[Brit33]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You're not looking at this correctly.
It's of no concern to you in your climate whether an oil is a 0W,5W or 20W for that matter since you're not cold starting at temp's well bewlow freezing.
If you want an oil that's as light as possible on start-up you want an oil with a high viscosity index.

The 300V 15W-50 is thick on start-up because it has a fairly low VI of only 154 and of course it has a high HTHSV of 5.33cP. If you're happy with the viscosity at hot operating temp's the only way to lower the viscosity on start-up is to raise the VI of the oil without lowering the HTHSV.
300V 20W-60 has a higher 172 VI as does 300V 5W-40 (176) and 0W-40 (174). So blending those oils will keep the VI in the 174 area and the oil will be somewhat lighter on start-up vs the 15W-50.



You learn something new everyday. I had no idea.
The majority of people look at the winter setting. Which makes sense as this is on the label and marketed like that.

Ok so if I can mix the heavy 20w60 300v with a lighter 300v to make a 10w50 lets say for example and high VI then we're all good.

But if I use 2 litres of 15w50 and 2 litres of 20w60 for example what would the VI be?
Around 163 or so? Still a better start up of 15w50 on its own? Sounds illogical but as you say the higher the VI..

Thanks.

 

[Brit33]

Good explanation with graphs here:

Thanks Caterham for clearing that up for me.
Let me see what the TWS has now.= 173! High which is good. But can shear easily no? And not a full ester.

VI

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Brit33

But if I use 2 litres of 15w50 and 2 litres of 20w60 for example what would the VI be?
Around 163 or so? Still a better start up of 15w50 on its own? Sounds illogical but as you say the higher the VI.

Yes you're increasing the VI but also the HTHSV so that won't work. For an oil to be lighter on start-up it must have a higher VI but not a much higher HTHSV.

Castrol TWS 10W-60 could be a good choice if you haven't tried it already. It does have some esters in it's formulation and yes it can shear. But since you have an oil pressure gauge you can monitor whether or not the oil will shear in your Alfa; ie., can you maintain oil pressure as you put some miles on the oil. I suspect you won't have a problem.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Motul has said you can mix the old and new.


Yes, sorry, I forgot about all of the corespondence with Joey, et al.

 

[Brit33]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Brit33

But if I use 2 litres of 15w50 and 2 litres of 20w60 for example what would the VI be?
Around 163 or so? Still a better start up of 15w50 on its own? Sounds illogical but as you say the higher the VI.

Yes you're increasing the VI but also the HTHSV so that won't work. For an oil to be lighter on start-up it must have a higher VI but not a much higher HTHSV.

Castrol TWS 10W-60 could be a good choice if you haven't tried it already. It does have some esters in it's formulation and yes it can shear. But since you have an oil pressure gauge you can monitor whether or not the oil will shear in your Alfa; ie., can you maintain oil pressure as you put some miles on the oil. I suspect you won't have a problem.


Thanks.

Now I'm running TWS 10w60. excellent start ups.Still gets a bit low on hot idle though. Think this is just a common alfa problem.
Was a bit concerned about the Quality of it not being a full ester like 300v and its zddp level.

Well I'll either stick with this or even try the Moly 10w60 for the next OCI.

 

[CATERHAM]

You could always add a bit of the heavier 300V 20W-60 to the TWS 10W-60 to increase the hot OP. Of course this will also increase the viscosity on start-up as well but it will still be better than 300V 15W-50.

As far as the ZDDP level, you could always buy a ZDDP suppliment to adjust the level to whatever you want (within reason), that's what I do.

 

[Brit33]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You could always add a bit of the heavier 300V 20W-60 to the TWS 10W-60 to increase the hot OP. Of course this will also increase the viscosity on start-up as well but it will still be better than 300V 15W-50.

As far as the ZDDP level, you could always buy a ZDDP suppliment to adjust the level to whatever you want (within reason), that's what I do.

Hi Caterham.

Thanks for the tips.
I have been using zddpmaxx with good results so far.

Can I mix 300v 20w60 with the Castrol tws really with no detrimental effects?

I always though it was a taboo thing to do.

Cheers

 

[Brit33]

I really also want to use up the 300v 15w40 I have stored (expensive stuff here). 2 x 2 litre cans.

If I can mix it with the TWS what would I expect in terms of VI, weights and HTHS? Something similar maybe but reducing the start up ease a little.

15w50 VI: 154 (5.33cP)
TWS 10w60 VI: 174 (5.3cP)

 

[Brit33]

Originally Posted By: Brit33

I really also want to use up the 300v 15w50 I have stored (expensive stuff here). 2 x 2 litre cans.

If I can mix it with the TWS what would I expect in terms of VI, weights and HTHS? Something similar maybe but reducing the start up ease a little.

15w50 VI: 154 (5.33cP)
TWS 10w60 VI: 174 (5.3cP)



I think I will go ahead and mix 2 litres of 300v 15w50 with 2 litres of 300v 20w60.
As I have 4 litres of 300v going to waste stored away I want to use it up.

So just need to buy 2 litres of 20w60. This should give give an approx VI of about 163 and maybe a 17w/55 grade or so with a very good HTHS.
I'll add a little zddp also.

Think piston 3 has developed a litle piston slap. I knew it was worn and this piston on the alfa boxer is always susceptible to wear.
it goes away after its warmed up.
Was afraid it was a big bearing but this would reveal itself when hot.