Difference between proper/improper lug nut torque!

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Traction
Torque sticks could be okay in the right hands, but they still beat the [censored] out of chrome capped lug nuts that a socket will never fit right again on.

I have never seen what you described.

Can you show me what you are talking about?

 

[charbaby]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Traction
Torque sticks could be okay in the right hands, but they still beat the [censored] out of chrome capped lug nuts that a socket will never fit right again on.

I have never seen what you described.

Can you show me what you are talking about?


They look no different than an extension with their own socket for the lugnuts or, you can use your own socket at the end of the stick(brand dependent/style/price).

They usually come in a whole kit for different applications(color coded & thicker/thinner rods) for the repair shop guys.

Each stick has it's own torque rating so the Tech won't over torque the lugnuts when using an impact gun. The extension rod(torque stick) must actually twist some(but, IDK really) as not to over torque the lugnuts

When used properly they work but, many folks have their doubts as too many Tech's have the impact gun waaaay toooo high for the stick to be accurate, often causing the lugnuts to be over torqued. My .02 cents!

This is what I found quickly:

http://www.torquestick.com/

 

[charbaby]

Did I explain that correctly?

 

[The Critic]

I know what a torque stick is. I would like to see pictures of the issues that he described.

 

[Traction]

Still have not figured a easy way to post a picture. But the lug nuts I was saying get beat up by impact wrenches are the ones a lot of OEM's use. They have a crimped on stainless cover. Most of the damage happens taking off tight ones with a impact, and the stainless cover gets distorted, rounded off, or they fall off, then the correct socket doesn't fit anymore. Treat them with a little care by loosening by hand and torquing by hand they will last a long time.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Traction
Still have not figured a easy way to post a picture. But the lug nuts I was saying get beat up by impact wrenches are the ones a lot of OEM's use. They have a crimped on stainless cover. Most of the damage happens taking off tight ones with a impact, and the stainless cover gets distorted, rounded off, or they fall off, then the correct socket doesn't fit anymore. Treat them with a little care by loosening by hand and torquing by hand they will last a long time.


Are they dodges? They have the worst long chrome lug nuts. (in fact they're so bad Blue Point sells 1/2 mm oversize sockets for this scenario.) Reaching for a punch to pop one out of my socket led me to trip, break my ankle, and end my brief tire busting career. By the time 200k miles were up, they'd have a 30 degree twist in the outer half, and take a 21mm socket to turn off a 19mm nut. The torque sticks I've seen are shallow sockets but it's also possible that lazy techs think they're NASCAR pit crew and don't sink long sockets all the way down long lug nuts.

 

[charbaby]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I know what a torque stick is. I would like to see pictures of the issues that he described.


Oops, I misunderstood!

 

[Traction]

In the last 12 years I have loosened by hand, and torqued by hand over 42,000 lug nuts. It always ruins my day when I have to struggle with abused lug nuts. If more tire shops would just try and be careful and spend a couple extra minutes doing it right, instead of seeing how fast they can do it/trash it, it would help everyone out in the long run. Especially, stranded by the side of the road with a flat, it's dark,raining, a holiday, and the lug nuts are rounded off, by some doofus that thinks they have to use a air wrench on everything.

 

[oily boyd]

Originally Posted By: Traction
If more tire shops would just try and be careful and spend a couple extra minutes doing it right, instead of seeing how fast they can do it/trash it, it would help everyone out in the long run.


Amen.

I buy all my tires from Tire Rack and have most installed at their South Bend, IN location. They ALWAYS use a torque wrench to reinstall the wheels.

 

[Traction]

It just so happens I am a Tire Rack installer in NE Iowa, and that is one of what seemed like a trick question they asked me. Do you use a torque stick. I replied never, and I never will.

 

[dareo]

If every tire tech would just know this:

Clamping force goes down as you exceed the recommended torque specs. The wheel is actually held on with less force. Tighter is not better. Its like a bell curve with peak clamping forces near the recommended torque.

Wal-mart has the very best system to prevent over torques.
1.Impact Guns are specialty supplied with much lower torque than anything else out there.
2.Torque limiting sticks for everything.

Too bad they usually don't have the most important part, skilled workers. If it is poorly ran or staffed they may forgo the torque limiting stick and gun it on to about 200 lb ft.

They have excellent procedures in policy, but follow through and technician skills are often so bad.

 

[stephen9666]

I go to a number of tire shops and they always use a torque wrench for final tightening. The tires shops I worked in during college always used torque wrenches.

People on here always complain about improperly torqued lugs at tire shops, but I just never see it.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
I go to a number of tire shops and they always use a torque wrench for final tightening. The tires shops I worked in during college always used torque wrenches.

People on here always complain about improperly torqued lugs at tire shops, but I just never see it.


I saw it all the time with torque sticks. They blast the lugs on and when they use the torque wrench it clicks right away without moving at all.

 

[dareo]

If the impact gun isn't on full blast it won't over torque with a torque stick. Wal-Mart's weak guns cannot overpower the sticks at any setting. They always move on final hand torque. If a tire tech isn't savvy enough to dial down that gun he is a newb.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: dareo
Clamping force goes down as you exceed the recommended torque specs. The wheel is actually held on with less force. Tighter is not better. Its like a bell curve with peak clamping forces near the recommended torque.

I don't understand this.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: dareo
If the impact gun isn't on full blast it won't over torque with a torque stick. Wal-Mart's weak guns cannot overpower the sticks at any setting. They always move on final hand torque. If a tire tech isn't savvy enough to dial down that gun he is a newb.


When I worked st Sears it seemed like everyone that had been there a long time blasted them on without caring. There was a group of my friends and I that started there and constantly got in trouble because we actually turned the guns down, or used our own turned all the way down without torque sticks so that the torque wrench actually turned before clicking.

 

[hattaresguy]

Wheel torque is important, on old Jag's and Mercedes with wheel bolts and not nuts you can ruin some expensive wheels and brakes quickly.

Anytime I bring any vehicle to a shop I always re torque the lug nuts/bolts. For two reasons, one I know they are done right, and two if I get a flat I can get the wheel off!!

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Don't trust a shop you don't know.

A torque wrench generally won't register a torque difference of 5 ft/lb or less. You need to loosen the lug nut if you intend to check the installed torque assuming it's close to the spec.

The better solution is to torque slightly higher, but within reason; i.e. if spec is 80 and you believe they are torqued to 80 then set wrench to 85 and wait for a click. Reason being the 85 will be consistent on all 4/5/6 etc wheel studs, which means your rotors are not going to warp.

My tire shop insists that lug nuts be re-torqued after about 50 miles. You bring the vehicle in for free for the re-torque, or optionally you can do it yourself. The lug nuts will loosen with vehicle wheel stresses.

If your shop doesn't ask you to come in for a re-torque, ask them why or just go elsewhere.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I have been asked to come back within 50 miles when a tires shop mounted and installed tires on alloy wheels and put on the vehicle. Never steel wheels.

Focus needs 4 tires in the spring. I will definitely be carrying in to have the tires mounted / balanced.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
........If your shop doesn't ask you to come in for a re-torque, ask them why or just go elsewhere.


I just want to pass on my experience.

My street based race car had oversized lugs. I torqued each wheel nut before EVERY on track session. I started out with the stock torque spec and if ANY nut moved on checking, I upped the spec. it only took a bit higher spec and after reaching that higher level, I never experienced movement again. Please note, I ALWAYS re-torqued before every session. It's just it never required any action.

I used to check my street wheels as well and found that IF I torqued them to spec, I didn't need to readjust later. I still check, but haven't found any movement. I should mention that all my wheels are steel.

And don't take this wrong. I am NOT advocating that wheels don't need to be re-torqued. I'm just passing on that my experience.

And I agree that any shop that doesn't tell you to come back to get a re-torque is not one worthy of your business. They should not only be looking after your safety, but also their own legal liability.