Dex-Cool?

[StevieC]

EXACTLY! as a side note, my neighbour has used Dex-Cool in two of his GM vehicles and never had a problem with it. Plus my dad who's a mechanic of 35 years has only seen this problem maybe a handful of times and most of the time it was because the driver exceeded the recommended change interval!

When you are Ignorant, you get what you deserve!

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: toocrazy2yoo
Point taken and made, there, Stevie-boy!

It's all elementary to me too. One thing the Hate-Dex folks never argue: had they changed the coolant every year, been observant, taken a little care, the disaster wouldn't have happened. But no, they want to think nothing of it for five years. Reap what ya sow when it comes to maintenance, baby!

Not a "Dex-Hater" so to speak, but when the Manufacturer of these new-fangled extended maintenance cars made nowadays advertise "you don't need to change that coolant for 5 years/150,000 Miles" what is average Joe/Jane supposed to say about changing every year? Us folk at BITOG are Anal-retentive when it comes to maintenance anyhow, but average Joe? C'mon, 80% of the people driving cars nowdays barely know how to open their hood, much less know to change that "special coolant" or "sealed transmissions" or whatnot...

 

[StevieC]

These people buy a house and have to maintain it, they buy consumer goods and have to maintain them, so I think its about time they learned how to maintain a car. Besides it's not rocket science, especially in today's cars!

We really need it to be part of the drivers license test... Basic car maintenance, they should have to point out to the instructor where all the dip sticks are, what the fluid levels are and when they think they need to change them. They would save people lots of money and possibly some lives from people breaking down on the side of the road.

I have only had 1 breakdown in the 10+ years I have been driving and that wasn't my fault the distributor module which were known to be a problem blew on me without warning.

 

[Propflux01]

That is my point, cars have become so sophisticated that average Joe/Jane cannot service them much, not withstanding the reliability of cars has gone up so much in years past. Also the fact that auto maker push the "maintenance free" concept like sealed trannies and 100K plugs and such. You and I understand that maintenance (especially PM) is still needed and that is why we are on this type of forum. I agree that basic Maintenance as you describe should be mandatory for getting a license. Unfortunately, in this "maintenance free" mindset, we have those that that do not, and those that Will stick that owners manual in your face and say "It says right here 150K/5 years, and I don't fix things that don't need to be fixed".. Bad situation all around.

 

[ZGRider]

Originally Posted By: onion
Originally Posted By: Rolf

When it works, it works great.

When it fails, it fails catastrophically.


That has been my experience, too.

I've seen automotive systems filled with Dexcool pushing 200k miles that were squeaky clean... and long-haul trucks approaching 800k with new-looking cooling systems filled with Dexcool.

I've also seen LOTS of GM autos/light trucks with thoroughly sludged cooling systems at well under 100k miles. I've seen Dexcool cause DOZENS of perfectly good Cummins N14 head gaskets to leak before 200k (barely broken-in for a long-haul truck). These were paid for under Texaco warranty.


Onion: Yer wasting your time, some refuse to listen. Their limited experience outweights your extensive knowledge. Let 'em find out the hard way.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Rolf
Originally Posted By: Big Jim
Today, every common coolant is a Dexcool derivative.


That's not quite accurate.

OATs in general preceded DexCool.

HOATs, for example, are an OAT plus an inorganic inhibitor of some sort.

Mercedes went to G-05 in the 80s.

I have used DexCool in some personal vehicles with no problem.

In a fleet, though, you start seeing its Achilles heel.

When it works, it works great.

When it fails, it fails catastrophically.



.

And some coolants have OAT inhibitors that are neither 2-EH or sodium neodeconate, or that other one found in G-05

That is the case with many Peak brand products.

I don't know how well that unique additive works, so I put Dexcool in my car (2003 Saturn ION) and G-05 in mom's car (2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee) which is what each factory manual calls for.

However, in both cases, I replaced the coolant at 3 years, and on my ION, I replaced it again 2 years later.

 

[ZGRider]

Here is why Dexcool is such a great antifreeze and how confident GM is in it's performance:

"WASHINGTON -- General Motors Corp. has agreed to pay as much as $800 each to millions of customers to settle lawsuits that it sold about 35 million vehicles with faulty coolant and engine parts.
The move announced by lawyers Wednesday would close one of the largest product-liability lawsuits faced by a U.S. automaker. GM declined to say how much it expected the settlement to cost, but the agreement gives payments to customers even if they bought the vehicles used.
The suits stem from GM's use of Dex-Cool, a coolant it first introduced in its vehicles in 1995 and sold in more than 35 million cars and trucks between 1995 and 2004. About 14 federal and state lawsuits seeking class-action status have been filed against GM over a variety of problems in V6 engines linked to Dex-Cool.
Thousands of customers have complained of problems ranging from small coolant leaks to complete radiator and engine failure. Court documents show that GM has received tens of thousands of repair requests linked to Dex-Cool and engine gaskets in the affected engines, and considered recalls for some models.
Under the settlement approved by a California judge last week, people who paid for Dex-Cool-related repairs on 3.1-, 3.4-, 3.8- or 4.3-liter V6 engines within seven years or 150,000 miles are eligible for some payment from GM. Repairs made within the first five years are eligible for up to $400, while sixth-year repairs could receive $100 and seventh-year repairs $50."

Just think: Would GM pay out that kind of money if there was nothing wrong with Dexcool?

 

[nthach]

I have a 1991 Lexus LS400 that has only seen OEM Toyota coolant, and all hoses+the OEM plastic/brass radiator are still there. The coolant passages are clean as a whistle.

OTOH, our 1996 Nissan Quest that was switched over to Dex-[censored] needed a new radiator and each coolant hose to be swapped out.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Here is why Dexcool is such a great antifreeze and how confident GM is in it's performance:

"WASHINGTON -- General Motors Corp. has agreed to pay as much as $800 each to millions of customers to settle lawsuits that it sold about 35 million vehicles with faulty coolant and engine parts.
The move announced by lawyers Wednesday would close one of the largest product-liability lawsuits faced by a U.S. automaker. GM declined to say how much it expected the settlement to cost, but the agreement gives payments to customers even if they bought the vehicles used.
The suits stem from GM's use of Dex-Cool, a coolant it first introduced in its vehicles in 1995 and sold in more than 35 million cars and trucks between 1995 and 2004. About 14 federal and state lawsuits seeking class-action status have been filed against GM over a variety of problems in V6 engines linked to Dex-Cool.
Thousands of customers have complained of problems ranging from small coolant leaks to complete radiator and engine failure. Court documents show that GM has received tens of thousands of repair requests linked to Dex-Cool and engine gaskets in the affected engines, and considered recalls for some models.
Under the settlement approved by a California judge last week, people who paid for Dex-Cool-related repairs on 3.1-, 3.4-, 3.8- or 4.3-liter V6 engines within seven years or 150,000 miles are eligible for some payment from GM. Repairs made within the first five years are eligible for up to $400, while sixth-year repairs could receive $100 and seventh-year repairs $50."

Just think: Would GM pay out that kind of money if there was nothing wrong with Dexcool?

But they are still using Dex-Cool in their new vehicles. Plus, they recently increased their powertrain warranty.

What does that tell you? It tells me, at least, that GM is confident that they have resolved any issues with Dex-Cool.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: nthach
I have a 1991 Lexus LS400 that has only seen OEM Toyota coolant, and all hoses+the OEM plastic/brass radiator are still there. The coolant passages are clean as a whistle.

OTOH, our 1996 Nissan Quest that was switched over to Dex-[censored] needed a new radiator and each coolant hose to be swapped out.


I have worked an many Nissan and Lexus cars, Nissan's factory coolant and oil containing hoses NEVER last as long as those in Lexus, and even many Toyota cars.

That in mind... Many people ignore their coolant until something breaks, no matter what they drive.

 

[nthach]

I had a coolant hose burst on me after going 70+ on the freeway, luckily I was 500 feet from work which is ironically a Honda dealer. 3 inches of 5/8" hose and 1 gallon of Honda Blue later and I was able to drive back home. This was on the Quest.

I've just finished replacing all the small hoses and heater hoses this week, what a pain in the butt since the plenum had to be pulled. I've got Peak Global and RMI-25 circulating in there now, It'll be drained, flushed, and refilled with G-05 and Bar's Leak in 2-3 weeks.

 

[ZGRider]

Originally Posted By: The Critic

What does that tell you? It tells me, at least, that GM is confident that they have resolved any issues with Dex-Cool.


They may still be using it, but they don't tell owners that it will last 5 years or 150,000 miles anymore. And are you sure they haven't changed the formulation slightly? When several other automakers start using Dexcool, I will retract my statements about it. BTW, GM isn't known for making the best decisions even in the face of failure, so their continued use of Dexcool can't be considered terribly bright or justification for your using it.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Originally Posted By: The Critic

What does that tell you? It tells me, at least, that GM is confident that they have resolved any issues with Dex-Cool.


They may still be using it, but they don't tell owners that it will last 5 years or 150,000 miles anymore. And are you sure they haven't changed the formulation slightly? When several other automakers start using Dexcool, I will retract my statements about it. BTW, GM isn't known for making the best decisions even in the face of failure, so their continued use of Dexcool can't be considered terribly bright or justification for your using it.

It's still carries a 5/150k service interval in the new vehicles.

I've noticed that the newer GM vehicles have a Dex-Cool that is dyed reddish. In the past, Dex-Cool has always been dyed orange.

The Prestone Dex-Cool that I installed into my Saturn last month was red, fwiw. Maybe they've switched from Texaco to Prestone as a supplier, who knows? I'm not sure about any formulation changes though.

 

[nthach]

Chevron absorbed Texaco and since Equilion which was Texaco and Shell was broken up, I suspect there was a formulation change that was done after the ChevronTexaco takeover.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Big Jim

How soon we forget. I started using Dexcool shortly after it was introduced so that I could get away from the horrors of the old conventional green sludge. Dexcool worked well in the cars I used it in and stayed clean.


What "horrors???" I just sold a '93 Mopar (3.5L v6, iron block aluminum heads) with 257,000 miles, and the inside of that cooling system was *spotless* when I replaced the radiator last summer (due to a cracked plastic end-tank, not due to corrosion). Sorry, but I never saw any "horrors" with silicate coolants... other than having to (gasp!) drain and flush every 2 years.



Quote:
Today, every common coolant is a Dexcool derivative. There must have been something they were doing right.


Can't agree with that either. DexCool is a sub-class of OAT coolants. G-05 is a HOAT coolant. You can claim some chemical similarity (after all, the actual antifreeze in all of them is ethylene glycol) but I would consider it a very fundamental difference that G-05 includes inorganic inhibitors to "fill in the gaps" in the protection the organics provide.