Design Approaches for Max Efficiency-- Who is Winning?

[IndyIan]

I've posted this before, but my CX-5 gets much better short-trip mileage than my Impreza ever did. One-hour commute at 55 mph, with stops every 5-10 miles, the CX-5 was somewhat better, but that takes into account that I was 'hypermiling' the Subaru, and just normally driving the CX-5.

Both cars lost MPG quickly past 60-65 MPH, I'd say they were equal, even though the CX-5 is much higher, and with more ground clearance.

The Outback we have is a gas hog.

The CX-5 is a luxury car in comparison to the farm implement Subarus.
The CX-5 is an F1 car handling wise.
The Subies are massively stable in deep, wet snow.
The CX-5's AWD, in the 'testing' I have done, is better at getting all four tires moving at the same RPM. The 2000 Outback I had, with LSD, would blow *all* of the current AWD vehicles off the side of the mountain.

Some objective data:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/crosstrek
http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/forester
http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/impreza
http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/outback
http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/xv_crosstrek
http://www.fuelly.com/car/mazda/cx-5

I find our Outback does waste/use some gas to warm up, so if you were short tripping in the winter it would be pretty scary mileage. One of our urban friends has one and was a bit surpised how much more gas it uses comparted to their old mtx 1.8l toyota matrix. Once its warmed up and rolling, the hwy mileage numbers get very good for a SUV/awd midsize car. I find with the CVT some moderate hypermiling techniques can really pay off as its always operating at the ideal rpm for the hp demand, but my wife can't be bothered and it gets high 20's mpg tanks.
For me in 2018 the Outback's size, ride, hwy mpg, towing rating, mostly simple NA gas 90's tech drivetrain except CVT, its design of longitudinal AWD only vehicle, and the features for the price made it worth trying it even with the CVT. Subaru has been refining their CVTs' for quite a while now and the most common failure was a solenoid, so I'm not too worried.
If we smashed it today though, I'd be looking at the AWD hybrids and perhaps plugin versions closely.

 

[CKN]

I find our Outback does waste/use some gas to warm up, so if you were short tripping in the winter it would be pretty scary mileage. One of our urban friends has one and was a bit surpised how much more gas it uses comparted to their old mtx 1.8l toyota matrix. Once its warmed up and rolling, the hwy mileage numbers get very good for a SUV/awd midsize car. I find with the CVT some moderate hypermiling techniques can really pay off as its always operating at the ideal rpm for the hp demand, but my wife can't be bothered and it gets high 20's mpg tanks.
For me in 2018 the Outback's size, ride, hwy mpg, towing rating, mostly simple NA gas 90's tech drivetrain except CVT, its design of longitudinal AWD only vehicle, and the features for the price made it worth trying it even with the CVT. Subaru has been refining their CVTs' for quite a while now and the most common failure was a solenoid, so I'm not too worried.
If we smashed it today though, I'd be looking at the AWD hybrids and perhaps plugin versions closely.

Same here-but I am going to do the math first. I figure if you calculate gas at $5.00/gallon and then look at the pricing premium of a Hybrid over a gas only version verses your millage driven and then decide what's best for your ownership experience.

 

[IndyIan]

Same here-but I am going to do the math first. I figure if you calculate gas at $5.00/gallon and then look at the pricing premium of a Hybrid over a gas only version verses your millage driven and then decide what's best for your ownership experience.

Yep, depends how long you are going to keep it too? Prii have a pretty good long term track record, which no one else has that yet, and Toyota still did some dumb high voltage plug design that corrodes and fails on the RAV4. Not a huge deal in warranty, but there's alot of higher tech stuff going on under a hybrid to run it cheaply until rust out...

 

[bobdoo]

Regarding mpg in CVT trannys... My Impreza mileage would improve a lot once all that oil in the CVT warmed up. Took a good 10 miles of hwy driving before the instantaneous MPG would peak.

 

[UG_Passat]

Benchmarking a 2018 Toyota Camry 2.5-liter Atkinson Cycle Engine with Cooled-EGR

As part of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA’s) continuing assessment of advanced light-duty automotive technologies in support of regulatory and compliance programs, a 2018 Toyota Camry A25A-FKS 4-cylinder, 2.5-liter, naturally ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The A25A-FKS is about 40% efficient
the hybrid version, A25A-FXS sacrifices power for a tad more thermal efficiency, 41%