Delvac 1 5w-40, 2002 Chrysler T&C 3.8L, 5871 miles

Ron-Indy · Jan 20, 2004

My second Delvac Experience (third pending is a 1996 Viper GTS but that won't be ready for a change until late summer).

Dino from 0 ~ 14,000 miles, unknown change frequency) Mobil 1 from 14,001 till 25,000, Delvac from there.

Here I'm really confused.... TBN wasted at less that 6K miles and 5 months of use?

Solids @ 0.6 already?

Is Delvac cleaning the engine so well that it's overwhelming the Mobil 1 filter?

I was looking forward to 7K oil changes and here it looks like the best I can get is 5K.... What am I missing?

Thanks....

Doug Hillary · Jan 20, 2004

Hi,
it is a great report

What standard# was used in testing the TBN?

I am amazed at the loss of TBN so early but it is still nowhere the limit with this oil!
I would have expected the TBN to have been around the 8 mark depending on#

I would sample again after 4k

Great stuff!

Robbie Alexander · Jan 20, 2004

I'd keep it in there another 1-2 turns.
You got Iron tracking DOWN
Copper looking much better
Lead and Tin not doing anything
I'm not sure about Nickel here
but silver and Tit. along with the lead issue are a no factor...and the TBN was about the right time to change.
From what I gather from the post, you only have one sample of the oil in there... wait another couple turns. Keep the OCI a couple hundred shorter...

Patman · Jan 20, 2004

The first run with any new oil won't be it's best showing in terms of TBN retention, so your second interval should show a good improvement there.

Al · Jan 20, 2004

That engine is an oil chewing up machine. You have high silicon (dirt-probably) fuel dilution, and soot (probabl). I suspect you have a K&N air filter???. I also imagine you drive the living ***out of the car

.

I think the silicon source should be tracked down.

Pablo · Jan 20, 2004

TBN at 3.6 via the "new" Blackstone method isn't that bad.

mikep · Jan 20, 2004

Nice improvement on the iron and copper coming down too. I wonder what's up with the silicon? It has been elevated since the first report with dino. Actually, other than copper, wear metals seem to look best with the dino interval. I would guess the copper in the dino report could still be a result of engine break in since it had less than 15,000 miles.

Interesting....again we see high iron levels during the M1 intervals.

Mikep

Ron-Indy · Jan 20, 2004

Hi Guys,

The silicon has stumped me. When I bought the car at 14,000 miles, I replace the factory filter with a STP (only aftermarket brand available for this application that I could find). After seeing the high silicon after the first UOA, I bought a new OEM filter, greased it's gasket and installed very carefully. Looked at all areas for dirty air infiltration, (vacuum hoses, intake gasket leaks, PCV, etc) and found none. Not sure what else to do on that side.

Doug, Don't know what standard # was used (or what it means actually) though I will ask Blackstone.

Al, No K&N, no steroids, no additives, no hard driving (my wife's vehicle, not mine!). Garage kept (very few "really" cold starts) and 2,200 of the 5,800 miles were one highway round trip over the holidays. It's a 4,400 lbs all wheel drive minivan so sprited driving is not part of the experience, though short trips are.

Don't know why the oil consumption is so high, (especially after reading a Honda UOA that mentions 4 ounces of consumption!) other than perhaps that the oil didn't get changed enough during it's early life. Sadly it's no better than my 100,000 mile Taurus.

As a hypothetical, could driving a new vehicle 14,000 miles with no change of factory fill oil and filter result in enough wear to cause this level of consumption or more likely is it just an American car phenomenom?

We'll give the combo another go (Delvac 1 + Mobil 1 filter) with a bit less mileage this time, but I have to be honest by using $5.00 a qt oil and $12.00 oil filters I expected more run time between changes.

Thanks for your comments.....

[ January 21, 2004, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Ron-Indy ]

Doug Hillary · Jan 20, 2004

Hi,
I would have confidantly used this oil & filter to 7k

Frankly I think your oil consumption is very good
As an example Porsche tolerate 1qt per 400 miles and deem it permissible!

The silicon may be "bleeding" from a replaced gasket etc! I have seen a lot of oil trashed for high silicon readings only for somebody to recall a replaced gasket and silicon sealer etc!
Some engines also tend to release silicon like some do copper etc

Regards

quadrun1 · Jan 21, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Ron-Indy:
.....but I have to be honest by using $5.00 a qt oil and $12.00 oil filters I expected more run time between changes.

IMO these $12 M1 oil filters aren't worth it, you're better off using a normal oil filter, like a $4 AC Delco.

Delvac 1 definitely could have gone longer, at least 7,500 miles.

If you want to run the oil for 10,000 miles, I think you could do so using a normal oil filter, changed halfway at 5,000 miles, and topping off.

Ron-Indy · Jan 21, 2004

Quadrun1;

Understand how changing the filter and adding a bit of makeup oil could add to the oil life, but doesn't a TBN drop from 12 to 3.6 in 6K mean that by 10K TBN would be zero, or isn't it proportional? Would a fresh filter clean up the 0.6 insoluables?

Thanks

Cressida · Jan 21, 2004

Ron, you've done everything I'd do as for as the air filter to try and resolve the silicon concern. So far without apparent success.

I run a Chrysler 3.3L which is almost identical to your 3.8L. I'd die to have your low lead numbers.

I'd suggest you try a run of 15w-40 Chevron Delo this spring and see what it looks like.

Terry · Jan 21, 2004

Classic excess fuel dilute issue Ron. Fix that and your oil consumption,TBN retention and wear values will stabilize.

Get a little interpretation help and save some money on analysis reports that have you puzzled.

[ January 22, 2004, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]

mikep · Jan 21, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Ron-Indy:
.....but I have to be honest by using $5.00 a qt oil and $12.00 oil filters I expected more run time between changes.

Couldn't fault you for that. I would too.

Mikep

quadrun1 · Jan 21, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Ron-Indy:
Understand how changing the filter and adding a bit of makeup oil could add to the oil life, but doesn't a TBN drop from 12 to 3.6 in 6K mean that by 10K TBN would be zero, or isn't it proportional? Would a fresh filter clean up the 0.6 insoluables?

TBN doesn't usually drop linearly, and yes, a fresh filter would clean up insolubles.

Dr. T · Jan 23, 2004

Terry, how do you 'fix' fuel dilution issues?

Terry · Jan 23, 2004

T, Ensure your engine is tuned properly, fuel delivery system is in good repair, ensure air filter is not loaded and slowing air flow, thermostat is working properly, in other words take nothing for granted and use the oil analysis to spotlight the problem and tighten up the diagnosing of the issue. Connect to a scanner to troubleshoot emissions or electronic sensors.
Check on TSB on the engine for coil or wire issues, etc.

Repair the problem, instead of thinking it is just intermittant or from excessive idling or just cold weather. Changing the oil and continuing just masks the underlying cause.

EFI and computer controlled engines don't have dilute problems for no reason. And it won't go away with time.

Gary Allan · Jan 23, 2004

quote:

EFI and computer controlled engines don't have dilute problems for no reason. And it won't go away with time.

Good point, Terry! I think that we, all too often, are looking toward the oil as a fix for all our ills ...never quite figuring out that it is just the carrier of the symptoms. Blaming the oil just isn't going to work.

I currently have my Delvac 1 10k sample in at Blackstone. I too am looking for my "magic in a can".

quadrun1 · Jan 24, 2004

Hey Gary, is Delvac 1 readily available there in Pottstown? My cousin lives in Reading and I think he'd like to try some.

Gary Allan · Jan 24, 2004

quote:

Hey Gary, is Delvac 1 readily available there in Pottstown? My cousin lives in Reading and I think he'd like to try some.

Check your PM and listed email

Delvac 1 5w-40, 2002 Chrysler T&C 3.8L, 5871 miles

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