David Kay

buster · Jan 31, 2004

Kay made a strong point and one that is going to have a huge impact on our foreign policy. You can debate the war all day long and where Iraq's WMD's are but one thing stands certain: You can't have a policy of pre-emption based on flawed intelligence. If this turns out to be a case where we were completely wrong, we will get ZERO credibility the next time we try and take out a regime. We should have kept the pressure on and let Blix work in Iraq a bit longer maybe??
This will hurt the Bush policy and credibility significanly IMO. This is a major blow to the pre-emption idea. Can you imagine the US trying to convince other counrtries that Iran or N.Korea needs a spanking? It will be much tougher.

mormit · Jan 31, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by buster:
We should have kept the pressure on and let Blix work in Iraq a bit longer maybe??
This will hurt the Bush policy and credibility significanly IMO.

Looks like that's what we should have done.

The Iraqi people will eventually be better off with that monster out of power but we did not do this for their sake. It was supposed to be a matter of OUR security. Now that we've cried wolf this time, nobody will go along with us next time.

Dan4510 · Jan 31, 2004

Everyone seems to forget that in most cases America is the only one with the backbone, resources, and ability to pull the rest of the world's chestnuts out of the fire.

If the rest of the world does not like it, let them fund themselves. We are the world's greatest market, engine of technical innovation, and source of freedom.

I am tired of hearing about the rest of the world's opinion when we as taxpayers keep the rest of the idiots afloat.

I continue to wonder why we participate in the UN anyway. Its operational goals are to change our way of life and transfer our wealth to any third rate country that cant feed, house, or take care of themselves.

Dan

[ February 01, 2004, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

GROUCHO MARX · Feb 1, 2004

buster, you are absolutely correct. That's why countries like France and Germany should take the tax dollars of their own citizens and pay for their own defense. We can no longer be trusted to defend them.

Not the Autorx Frank · Feb 1, 2004

yeah why don'y we just pull all our resources and help that is spread all over the world. you can't have it both ways. If every country wants to leach off our well being then they better be on board when we need them. I for the life of me don't understand why people are opposed to giving other people FREEDOM. That is true compassion. Good intentions don't do a !@#%%#$@ thing.

TooSlick · Feb 1, 2004

Want to know what the blue collar grunts - who do the fighting and dying- think of our current foreign policy in the middle east?

Read "Jarhead" by Lance Cpl Anthony Swofford, who served as a sniper in the first Gulf War....It's the best book about the senselessness of combat I've read since "All Quiet On the Western Front" in High School....

"...I am entitled to despair over the likelyhood of further atrocities. Indolence and cowardice do not drive me - despair drives me. I remade my war one word at a time, a foolish, desperate act. When I despair, I am alone, and I am often alone. In crowded rooms and walking the streets of our cities, I am alone and full of despair, and while sitting and writing, I am alone and full of despair - the same despair that impelled me to write this book, a quiet scream from within a buried coffin. Dead, dead, my scream.

What did I hope to gain? More bombs are coming. Dig your holes with the hands God gave you."

TS

buster · Feb 1, 2004

quote:

I am tired of hearing about the rest of the world's opinion when we as taxpayers keep the rest of the idiots afloat.

Dan, how about us taxpayers not electing morons that get us into wars we don't need to be in?

GM, completely agree and it pisses me off that they don't pick up after themselves.

Tooslick, the armed services are voluntary. People who join the services just for benefits should think before the apply.

Dan4510 · Feb 1, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by buster:

quote:

I am tired of hearing about the rest of the world's opinion when we as taxpayers keep the rest of the idiots afloat.

Click to expand...

Dan, how about us taxpayers not electing morons that get us into wars we don't need to be in?

Buster,

I agree completely about us electing morons. Both republican and democrat politicians are selling the country out to whomever will stuff their pockets the quickest.

If there was a better place to go, I would pack up and leave. Unfortunately, I dont think it will get better until enough people get sick of it as it is to do something, either that or our monetary system will go into hyper inflation.

Dan

buster · Feb 1, 2004

Dan4510, I agree. I think Bush has the right intentions. I'm dissapointed right now. I hope this changes.

Last_Z · Feb 1, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by mormit:
Now that we've cried wolf this time, nobody will go along with us next time.

Well, it seems the intel was wrong wholly or partially. Who's to blame will take some sort of inquiry. As far nobody going with us next time.....not a whole lot of people went with us this time, so I wasn't expecting anyone to go next time with us anyway.

Last_Z · Feb 1, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Not the Autorx Frank:
yeah why don'y we just pull all our resources and help that is spread all over the world. you can't have it both ways. If every country wants to leach off our well being then they better be on board when we need them. I for the life of me don't understand why people are opposed to giving other people FREEDOM. That is true compassion. Good intentions don't do a !@#%%#$@ thing.

WHOA!!!

mormit · Feb 1, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
Everyone seems to forget that in most cases America is the only one with the backbone, resources, and ability to pull the rest of the world's chestnuts out of the fire.

Agreed, but it was not the case this time. Nobody outside of Iraq was in any danger from Iraqi WMD or support of terrorist activities. We pissed away a few billion dollars and several hundred American lives on an intervention that gives us zero gain.

If Saddam's evil was our justification, why are we not invading N. Korea and China. Both have WMD and have longer and more grotesque histories of human rights violations than the little dictator Hussein. Engagement, even most favored nation trade status is somehow good enough for dealing with China. Why not Iraq. We all poo-pooed the French for resisting the war in Iraq. So did China who has never been a friend to the United States. Why are we not boycotting their goods? I guess taking China out of the picture would be bad because then we wouldn't have cheap imported junk and Walmart might have to charge higher prices for American made goods.

Supporting the rest of the world indeed.

[ February 01, 2004, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: mormit ]

Not the Autorx Frank · Feb 1, 2004

I sure we will deal w/ N Korea etc. Not every situation dictates militay force. The problem in the middle east is we have no friends (so called) willing to step up to the plate. We have countries in other parts of the world that may play ball in regards to N Korea. As far as China goes. Thats a tough one. I think we can keep them in check because we buy so much from them.

David Kay

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