Current consensus on OCIs for VW/Audi 2.0T TSI?

[austai]

Hi, just wondering if a consensus has been reached concerning how long to leave the oil (VW 502 approved, of course) in VW/Audi's TSI (not FSI!) 2.0T equipped cars.

Last time I checked, there was a huge debate between changing out the oil at 5K vs going all the way to the recommended 10K OCI.

Thanks!

 

[dparm]

It's rare to see one of those hit 10k without some shearing or contamination. I would do 5000. There's several good 502/505-approved oils available at any auto parts store for $6/qt.

 

[austai]

I was hoping there would be a new oil that could step up to the plate and go all the way to 10K. Nothing, huh?

 

[Boomer]

But here we go. Buy an expensive car and then try to save $30-$40/year on an oil change. I know we try to get the most out of the oil but there is also trying to get the most out of the car. Now, if it is a 3 year l;ease or you trade every few years, who cares? But to someone trying to go 10 years or mor on the vehicle, this is 7 to ten gallons of gas!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: austai
I was hoping there would be a new oil that could step up to the plate and go all the way to 10K. Nothing, huh?

Not with the ECU programming that we have here in the States that results in excessive fuel dilution. The lack of ultra low sulfur gasoline doesn't help either.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
But here we go. Buy an expensive car and then try to save $30-$40/year on an oil change.

He's just asking a question. Give him a break.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
But here we go. Buy an expensive car and then try to save $30-$40/year on an oil change. I know we try to get the most out of the oil but there is also trying to get the most out of the car. Now, if it is a 3 year l;ease or you trade every few years, who cares? But to someone trying to go 10 years or mor on the vehicle, this is 7 to ten gallons of gas!


There's still something to be said for not being wasteful. Why dump perfectly good oil at 5k if it's good for 2-3k more?

 

[austai]

Originally Posted By: dparm

There's still something to be said for not being wasteful. Why dump perfectly good oil at 5k if it's good for 2-3k more?


That leads to my next question.

If 5K is safe and 10K is not, is there any consensus (there's that word again, sorry) about, say, 7.5K OCIs being safe for this engine? Surely 5K is not the upper limit.

 

[fdcg27]

UOA?
You could try a UOA at 5K and then another at 7.5K.
You could see how the oil looks as well as how much fuel is in it, both by looking at viscosity loss and the fuel content given as part of the UOA.
TBN would be intersting as well.

 

[afoulk]

whats the difference between the FSI and TSI?

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: afoulk
whats the difference between the FSI and TSI?


TSI isn't a real Audi term.

TFSI is rather ambiguous in the Audi realm. Most interpret it to mean "turbo fuel stratified injection".

Problem is that "TFSI" is used on non-turbo motors, such as the Audi S4's supercharged V6. Unofficially the "3.0T" is short for "twin vortices series", the type of Eaton supercharger it uses.

 

[craigq]

TSI and FSI are kind of silly marketing terms that mean different things in different parts of the world. For the VW's in North America the "off the top of my head" differences between "2.0 FSI BPY engine code" and "2.0 TSI CBTA and CCTA engine codes" are the following:

Fuel pump - FSI cam lobe and pump issues, TSI no major issues yet
Timing mechanism/media - FSI belt, TSI chain with possible issues
Oil filter - FSI cartridge housing in a moronic location, TSI spin-on can in an awesome location from a DIY'er POV
Water pump - FSI belt driven, TSI electric pump with issues
PCV system - FSI has some problems, TSI less so
Turbo - FSI can't remember , TSI IHI brand turbo


Note: TSI in the rest of the world may refer to the Turbo Superchaged engine, i.e. the 1.4L TSI VW engine. In N.A. it doesn't (yet). It looks like they messed up with the engine acronyms by not maintaining consistency...

 

[afoulk]

So FSI was kind of like the "1st gen." of these engines and TSI is the "2nd gen." of them?

 

[williar]

VW 502.00 usually refers to a 5w40, or thereabouts, viscosity oil. I used GC (Castrol Syntec 0w30) in my Audi with the 2.7t turbo motor with 10K mi OCIs. I had excellent results after 100K mi.

I'd recommend you run your chosen oil 7.5K mi. and then have the oil analyzed, and go from there.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: afoulk
So FSI was kind of like the "1st gen." of these engines and TSI is the "2nd gen." of them?



No. FSI is just Audi's term for direct injection.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: williar
VW 502.00 usually refers to a 5w40, or thereabouts, viscosity oil. I used GC (Castrol Syntec 0w30) in my Audi with the 2.7t turbo motor with 10K mi OCIs. I had excellent results after 100K mi.

I'd recommend you run your chosen oil 7.5K mi. and then have the oil analyzed, and go from there.



502/505 is basically ACEA A3/B3, which is HTHS = 3.5.

504/507 has superseded 502/505, and is ACEA A3/B4.

 

[craigq]

Originally Posted By: afoulk
So FSI was kind of like the "1st gen." of these engines and TSI is the "2nd gen." of them?


I would read the two engines' Self Study Program documents and then decide.

 

[DFrost]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
UOA?
You could try a UOA at 5K and then another at 7.5K.
You could see how the oil looks as well as how much fuel is in it, both by looking at viscosity loss and the fuel content given as part of the UOA.
TBN would be intersting as well.

+1 on doing a few UOA's to get an independent assessment of OCI.

Doing so with M1 0W-40 in my 2006 Audi A3 2.0T (FSI, with all of the traits listed elsewhere in this thread), Blackstone consistently recommended a 6100-mile OCI, even when one exceeded that by only an extra 400 miles.

I'm not suggesting that as the OCI. But if it were my 2.0T TFSI, I'd change the first few times at 5K and get UOA's until I had enough information to feel confident in going longer. As another noted, fuel dilution with DI engines can be a reason to keep the intervals shorter, as well as oil stress from the turbocharger.

 

[Boomer]

Oil changes are not wasteful if you recycle the oil. It either gets re-refined or burned as fuel, saving other petroleum from being refined for furnace fuel. I do not advocate wasting resources but if you look at the resources used to build a vehicle (try an embodied energy calculation!), the amount of energy in a few extra quarts of oil over the lifetime of the vehicle is tiny. Far more savings in energy are achieved by making a vehicle last several years longer and foregoing the huge energy expenditure and raw material consumption involved in producing a replacement.

It is one of the issues I have with hybrids and lithium batteries. The energy used (and waste produced) to obtain the lithium is high and does God only knows what to the earth so someone can feel better about using less gasoline. We are better off running high mpg vehicles IMHO.

 

[jigen]

It seems to really depend on the driving conditions for each vehicle. Seems like once VW's "carefree maintenance" started their OCI's went from 5k to 10k. I would probably be more in the 5k crowd. Owning one of these engines though I plan on sticking to my once every 6 months OCI.