Conveniently, since my bank issued the new chip cards, the magnet strips don't work at all. My cards have magnet strips, but they don't seem to read in anything.
Credit Card Insecurity at the Gas Pump?
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I noticed Irvings got chip readers at the pump. Also have to type in my zip code now with that change (might have had to the month before, but otherwise it's a "sudden" change).
I haven't had my card hacked. I only use credit card (never debit). I keep meaning to look and see how many credit cards I have (cancel any that I don't actually have); but ultimately I'd like to have 2, for either having the mostest cashback rewards and/or a credit card backup, in case one gets hacked.
I haven't had my card hacked. I only use credit card (never debit). I keep meaning to look and see how many credit cards I have (cancel any that I don't actually have); but ultimately I'd like to have 2, for either having the mostest cashback rewards and/or a credit card backup, in case one gets hacked.
What's really needed (and I hope it gets to this point) is system where there's no longer a credit card number that can be used for purchases. Perhaps there might be a number that can be used for identifying the card, but not accepted for purchases. At this point anyone who can get a peek at the card number, expiration, and CVV has all the information needed to make purchases and/or spoof the magnetic card.
I get that it would make some means to order more difficult, such as giving a credit card number over the phone or writing a number down on an order form. However, the ease of use of a 16-digit number and unencrypted magnetic strips are part of the reason why it's so easy to make a fraudulent charge.
We're already starting to get to this point with stuff like Apple Pay. I don't know if we would go so far as to have smartcard readers standard on phones, but I remember as far back as the Amex Blue card where a reader was shipped to every user. Maybe even something like a contactless (NFC) smartcard system built into a phone or even a laptop for making online transactions. It could also be in the form of a USB device;
I get that it would make some means to order more difficult, such as giving a credit card number over the phone or writing a number down on an order form. However, the ease of use of a 16-digit number and unencrypted magnetic strips are part of the reason why it's so easy to make a fraudulent charge.
We're already starting to get to this point with stuff like Apple Pay. I don't know if we would go so far as to have smartcard readers standard on phones, but I remember as far back as the Amex Blue card where a reader was shipped to every user. Maybe even something like a contactless (NFC) smartcard system built into a phone or even a laptop for making online transactions. It could also be in the form of a USB device;
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Cash only for me. Saves me $.10/gallon at 99% of the stations I visit.
They don't get to do that up here. Credit card terms of service require retailers to charge the same price whether cash, debit, or credit. Of course, some do it anyway, but it's fairly rare. The gas stations certainly avoid it, since the clearing houses will simply shut down their debit/credit terminals, and that would be catastrophic to the station.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Conveniently, since my bank issued the new chip cards, the magnet strips don't work at all. My cards have magnet strips, but they don't seem to read in anything.
I've noticed that, too. I think some of the latest updates on terminals up here have shut down stripe functionality altogether, even though the hardware is still physically there.
Cash only for me. Saves me $.10/gallon at 99% of the stations I visit.
They don't get to do that up here. Credit card terms of service require retailers to charge the same price whether cash, debit, or credit. Of course, some do it anyway, but it's fairly rare. The gas stations certainly avoid it, since the clearing houses will simply shut down their debit/credit terminals, and that would be catastrophic to the station.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Conveniently, since my bank issued the new chip cards, the magnet strips don't work at all. My cards have magnet strips, but they don't seem to read in anything.
I've noticed that, too. I think some of the latest updates on terminals up here have shut down stripe functionality altogether, even though the hardware is still physically there.
Originally Posted By: Errtt
Last year there was a period where there was big rash of the card skimmers at gas stations and ATM's.
I use a Chevron gas gift card. I can put up to $100 max (I use cash) at the counter each transaction. I'll go in a time or two, use the card for some fills, go in and keep adding it up. I usually have few hundred on it most times. This way I don't have to walk in for every fill up. It keeps me from using any other card at the pump. Its like a phone top up.
At most Chevrons I use it gives 5-cents off a gallon, but that is not my purpose for having it - just keeps me from going in each gas fill up and prevents using another card. At one point I had about $500 balance on it because we were going on a couple little vacation trips around the state.
If other than Chevron (and that's been rare for me) - I'll use cash inside at the counter.
What I don't know (and I haven't asked) if the pump happens to have a card skimmer, could it skew up the balance on the Chevron gift card... I dunno
You'd be fighting to get your money back, which is harder than denying a charge and letting them have a month to sort it out.
Last year there was a period where there was big rash of the card skimmers at gas stations and ATM's.
I use a Chevron gas gift card. I can put up to $100 max (I use cash) at the counter each transaction. I'll go in a time or two, use the card for some fills, go in and keep adding it up. I usually have few hundred on it most times. This way I don't have to walk in for every fill up. It keeps me from using any other card at the pump. Its like a phone top up.
At most Chevrons I use it gives 5-cents off a gallon, but that is not my purpose for having it - just keeps me from going in each gas fill up and prevents using another card. At one point I had about $500 balance on it because we were going on a couple little vacation trips around the state.
If other than Chevron (and that's been rare for me) - I'll use cash inside at the counter.
What I don't know (and I haven't asked) if the pump happens to have a card skimmer, could it skew up the balance on the Chevron gift card... I dunno
You'd be fighting to get your money back, which is harder than denying a charge and letting them have a month to sort it out.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Cash only for me. Saves me $.10/gallon at 99% of the stations I visit.
They don't get to do that up here. Credit card terms of service require retailers to charge the same price whether cash, debit, or credit. Of course, some do it anyway, but it's fairly rare. The gas stations certainly avoid it, since the clearing houses will simply shut down their debit/credit terminals, and that would be catastrophic to the station.
Most gas stations in the US that charge extra have a credit/debit price vs a cash price. ARCO basically doesn't take credit cards (I knew of one that did for years) but they typically have a lower price. ARCO will take debit cards with a flat service charge. Quite a few gas stations have a single price regardless of form of payment.
The outliers are Costco and many supermarkets. Costco has one price, but only takes Visa, debit, or their own gift cards. The latter doesn't require a membership card to buy gas (or in the store). Supermarkets that I've used have a cash/debit or credit price. I guess they get a special deal with debit with their high volumes. One chain got in trouble because they had a discount for using a rewards card. Something about it got them in trouble with California, so they switched to a cash/debit price for their discount.
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Cash only for me. Saves me $.10/gallon at 99% of the stations I visit.
They don't get to do that up here. Credit card terms of service require retailers to charge the same price whether cash, debit, or credit. Of course, some do it anyway, but it's fairly rare. The gas stations certainly avoid it, since the clearing houses will simply shut down their debit/credit terminals, and that would be catastrophic to the station.
Most gas stations in the US that charge extra have a credit/debit price vs a cash price. ARCO basically doesn't take credit cards (I knew of one that did for years) but they typically have a lower price. ARCO will take debit cards with a flat service charge. Quite a few gas stations have a single price regardless of form of payment.
The outliers are Costco and many supermarkets. Costco has one price, but only takes Visa, debit, or their own gift cards. The latter doesn't require a membership card to buy gas (or in the store). Supermarkets that I've used have a cash/debit or credit price. I guess they get a special deal with debit with their high volumes. One chain got in trouble because they had a discount for using a rewards card. Something about it got them in trouble with California, so they switched to a cash/debit price for their discount.
Our credit card providers up here are too powerful for that.
If you have a price for credit cards only and another one for cash, you had better be a small, under the radar store like a mom and pop type computer shop, or a car dealer where you're fudging everything anyhow.
I suppose it would be possible for some smaller gas stations to do it here, and our Costcos have similar rules here, to the best of my knowledge. Shell, Esso, Petro-Canada, the Co-ops, and everything else up here, though, if you pay for gas, the price posted is what you get charged, regardless of your use of credit, debit, or your piggy bank.
With Petro-Canada, though, I do get two cents per litre off directly at the pump if I use their affiliated credit card. Most Petro-Canadas here are twenty-four hours, and trying to buy fuel from them late at night with cash is a bit of a pain, to say the least, so I have an obvious double incentive to do so with the credit card, since, as far as I know, the discount is only for pay at the pump transactions.
If I really got worried somewhere along the line, I'd probably just sign up for the Co-op cardlock instead, and just get a monthly gasoline bill.
I suppose it would be possible for some smaller gas stations to do it here, and our Costcos have similar rules here, to the best of my knowledge. Shell, Esso, Petro-Canada, the Co-ops, and everything else up here, though, if you pay for gas, the price posted is what you get charged, regardless of your use of credit, debit, or your piggy bank.
With Petro-Canada, though, I do get two cents per litre off directly at the pump if I use their affiliated credit card. Most Petro-Canadas here are twenty-four hours, and trying to buy fuel from them late at night with cash is a bit of a pain, to say the least, so I have an obvious double incentive to do so with the credit card, since, as far as I know, the discount is only for pay at the pump transactions.
If I really got worried somewhere along the line, I'd probably just sign up for the Co-op cardlock instead, and just get a monthly gasoline bill.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Our credit card providers up here are too powerful for that.
If you have a price for credit cards only and another one for cash, you had better be a small, under the radar store like a mom and pop type computer shop, or a car dealer where you're fudging everything anyhow.
I suppose it would be possible for some smaller gas stations to do it here, and our Costcos have similar rules here, to the best of my knowledge. Shell, Esso, Petro-Canada, the Co-ops, and everything else up here, though, if you pay for gas, the price posted is what you get charged, regardless of your use of credit, debit, or your piggy bank.
With Petro-Canada, though, I do get two cents per litre off directly at the pump if I use their affiliated credit card. Most Petro-Canadas here are twenty-four hours, and trying to buy fuel from them late at night with cash is a bit of a pain, to say the least, so I have an obvious double incentive to do so with the credit card, since, as far as I know, the discount is only for pay at the pump transactions.
If I really got worried somewhere along the line, I'd probably just sign up for the Co-op cardlock instead, and just get a monthly gasoline bill.
The last time I was across the border I avoided buying any fuel. I didn't particularly want to do the exchange rate and unit conversion in my head. I found the last Costco before the border and that was more than enough to last me until I got back.
I guess a regional fuel brand in BC is from a bunch of co-ops. I don't quite understand how it all works, but they all seemed to have a plain looking sign that said "CO-OP".
Our credit card providers up here are too powerful for that.
I suppose it would be possible for some smaller gas stations to do it here, and our Costcos have similar rules here, to the best of my knowledge. Shell, Esso, Petro-Canada, the Co-ops, and everything else up here, though, if you pay for gas, the price posted is what you get charged, regardless of your use of credit, debit, or your piggy bank.
With Petro-Canada, though, I do get two cents per litre off directly at the pump if I use their affiliated credit card. Most Petro-Canadas here are twenty-four hours, and trying to buy fuel from them late at night with cash is a bit of a pain, to say the least, so I have an obvious double incentive to do so with the credit card, since, as far as I know, the discount is only for pay at the pump transactions.
If I really got worried somewhere along the line, I'd probably just sign up for the Co-op cardlock instead, and just get a monthly gasoline bill.
The last time I was across the border I avoided buying any fuel. I didn't particularly want to do the exchange rate and unit conversion in my head. I found the last Costco before the border and that was more than enough to last me until I got back.
I guess a regional fuel brand in BC is from a bunch of co-ops. I don't quite understand how it all works, but they all seemed to have a plain looking sign that said "CO-OP".
Co-ops are generally a big thing in the rural areas, and they do have their presences in the city. If you have a card lock card from a local Co-op, usually you can fill at any other Co-op cardlock in the province and get billed at the end of the month. Co-op have real small town type hours, even in the city, but the card locks are available twenty-four hours and are available way out in the sticks, where you'd be 150 miles or more from a real twenty-four hour station. So, if you're on rural roads a lot late at night, a card lock account is a good thing to have. As for operation, they're a classic cooperative, owned by the members.
They were actually recently certified Top Tier up here. I find, however, that they're usually the first to raise and last to lower the gas price. Now, most of their cardlock locations don't sell premium, and the one that does, I have no idea how long it's been sitting there, either. I grab V-Power and drive without concern.
As for not buying gasoline in Canada, you made the right decision. Don't bother with the unit conversion and exchange rate; be rest assured it's significantly more expensive up here. I'm not sure how it is now with the exchange rate, but a few years ago, we were traditionally in line with California gas prices, if we were on a good day. I'd say that would be generous, and we pay a fair bit up here. If you factor out the taxes and take into account the exchange rate, our prices are good, but the taxes are what really messes things up.
They were actually recently certified Top Tier up here. I find, however, that they're usually the first to raise and last to lower the gas price. Now, most of their cardlock locations don't sell premium, and the one that does, I have no idea how long it's been sitting there, either. I grab V-Power and drive without concern.
As for not buying gasoline in Canada, you made the right decision. Don't bother with the unit conversion and exchange rate; be rest assured it's significantly more expensive up here. I'm not sure how it is now with the exchange rate, but a few years ago, we were traditionally in line with California gas prices, if we were on a good day. I'd say that would be generous, and we pay a fair bit up here. If you factor out the taxes and take into account the exchange rate, our prices are good, but the taxes are what really messes things up.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Cash only for me. Saves me $.10/gallon at 99% of the stations I visit.
They don't get to do that up here. Credit card terms of service require retailers to charge the same price whether cash, debit, or credit. Of course, some do it anyway, but it's fairly rare. The gas stations certainly avoid it, since the clearing houses will simply shut down their debit/credit terminals, and that would be catastrophic to the station.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Conveniently, since my bank issued the new chip cards, the magnet strips don't work at all. My cards have magnet strips, but they don't seem to read in anything.
I've noticed that, too. I think some of the latest updates on terminals up here have shut down stripe functionality altogether, even though the hardware is still physically there.
So when I lived in NY, I think there was a regulation that they could not charge more for credit than cash.
But here in Texas, I see it done all the time, and it is kind of sneaky.
The Exxon station on my street charges two prices, less for cash, yet they advertise the cash price on the billboard.
The walmart "murphy" gas station does something similar, but they charge less if you use a Walmart prepaid card or cash versus a credit card.
I have also seen places charge less for debit than credit.
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Cash only for me. Saves me $.10/gallon at 99% of the stations I visit.
They don't get to do that up here. Credit card terms of service require retailers to charge the same price whether cash, debit, or credit. Of course, some do it anyway, but it's fairly rare. The gas stations certainly avoid it, since the clearing houses will simply shut down their debit/credit terminals, and that would be catastrophic to the station.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Conveniently, since my bank issued the new chip cards, the magnet strips don't work at all. My cards have magnet strips, but they don't seem to read in anything.
I've noticed that, too. I think some of the latest updates on terminals up here have shut down stripe functionality altogether, even though the hardware is still physically there.
So when I lived in NY, I think there was a regulation that they could not charge more for credit than cash.
But here in Texas, I see it done all the time, and it is kind of sneaky.
The Exxon station on my street charges two prices, less for cash, yet they advertise the cash price on the billboard.
The walmart "murphy" gas station does something similar, but they charge less if you use a Walmart prepaid card or cash versus a credit card.
I have also seen places charge less for debit than credit.
Yes, I only see it done in fairly small stores, and then usually ones that have very low margins, and then only on higher value purchases. Considering that Shell, Petro-Canada, and Esso here all have credit card arrangements with various banks (rather than having gas station credit cards like many years ago), they're obviously not going to be flouting any of the rules.
Walmart and Costco up here have rattled the cages of various credit card companies, too, but that was more of a general concern over rates, rather than any policies they were trying to implement to penalize credit card purchasers. Some years ago, one of the discount gas stations here had a lower price than other places, and at least back then, only accepted cash. I don't know how they handle payment now, and am not inclined to find out with their gas, either.
Walmart and Costco up here have rattled the cages of various credit card companies, too, but that was more of a general concern over rates, rather than any policies they were trying to implement to penalize credit card purchasers. Some years ago, one of the discount gas stations here had a lower price than other places, and at least back then, only accepted cash. I don't know how they handle payment now, and am not inclined to find out with their gas, either.
Originally Posted By: JustinH
The Exxon station on my street charges two prices, less for cash, yet they advertise the cash price on the billboard.
The walmart "murphy" gas station does something similar, but they charge less if you use a Walmart prepaid card or cash versus a credit card.
I have also seen places charge less for debit than credit.
This is a typical sign in California:
I believe the dual signs are required by law unless there's a single price for all forms of payment. Dual prices used to be common when there was full-service. I also see the occasional dual price sign for a lower price with a car wash purchase.
The oddest one I've seen lists a credit/debit price on the sign, but a sticker on the pump says that there's maybe a 4 cent/gallon discount for using cash. Once the customer goes in an leaves cash, the pump of course reflects the discount. Of course this is a lot easier to do with electronics - especially with pay at the pump.
Anyone remember dial pumps. One gas station I know of was one of the last ones that wasn't in some remote location that switched to electronic display. I remember some operated on the honor system where you pumped and the attendant would go to the driver for payment, even though it was self-service. Each pump would then be reset. A few operated by leaving each pump at the last state, and the attendant would have to reset it before it could pump fuel. Typically these would ask for upfront payment or a credit card. And I remember they were some of the last places that card imprinters and carbon or carbonless credit card slips.
The Exxon station on my street charges two prices, less for cash, yet they advertise the cash price on the billboard.
The walmart "murphy" gas station does something similar, but they charge less if you use a Walmart prepaid card or cash versus a credit card.
I have also seen places charge less for debit than credit.
This is a typical sign in California:
I believe the dual signs are required by law unless there's a single price for all forms of payment. Dual prices used to be common when there was full-service. I also see the occasional dual price sign for a lower price with a car wash purchase.
The oddest one I've seen lists a credit/debit price on the sign, but a sticker on the pump says that there's maybe a 4 cent/gallon discount for using cash. Once the customer goes in an leaves cash, the pump of course reflects the discount. Of course this is a lot easier to do with electronics - especially with pay at the pump.
Anyone remember dial pumps. One gas station I know of was one of the last ones that wasn't in some remote location that switched to electronic display. I remember some operated on the honor system where you pumped and the attendant would go to the driver for payment, even though it was self-service. Each pump would then be reset. A few operated by leaving each pump at the last state, and the attendant would have to reset it before it could pump fuel. Typically these would ask for upfront payment or a credit card. And I remember they were some of the last places that card imprinters and carbon or carbonless credit card slips.
I remember the dials. As for the sign you pictured, the credit card companies here would go ape over that one. They'd just deactivate the station's terminals, and they could have fun going back to handling tens of thousands of dollars cash per day, not to mention irate customers.
Interesting that the Walmart gas stations are called Murphy there.
Out here they are called Optima
Out here they are called Optima
I've been to gas stations where if I go in and prepay $10 in cash they tell me to pump $10.23 or some slightly advantageous number.
Maine, being "business friendly", lets you put up a sign with 2-foot tall numbers for the price and a 1-inch high sign that reads "cash", so long as the pump also correctly gives you a price.
Maine, being "business friendly", lets you put up a sign with 2-foot tall numbers for the price and a 1-inch high sign that reads "cash", so long as the pump also correctly gives you a price.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Interesting that the Walmart gas stations are called Murphy there.
Out here they are called Optima
Yeah all the super walmarts have Murphy gas stations. There are some Murphy gas stations that are standalone properties (not connected to a walmart).
Murphy has the cheapest gas if you don't consider costco.
Interesting that the Walmart gas stations are called Murphy there.
Out here they are called Optima
Yeah all the super walmarts have Murphy gas stations. There are some Murphy gas stations that are standalone properties (not connected to a walmart).
Murphy has the cheapest gas if you don't consider costco.
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