Considering used EV - viable?

A

andrew_j

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Jun 4, 2005
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Cow Hampshire
Our use case is commuting 35 miles each way highway with free Level II charging at work.

Myself 5 days per month and wife 3 days/week. It would translate to 30k miles/year. Do EVs last into the 200k-300k range with original batteries if charged between 20-80% using Level II at home? We are considering slightly used Tesla Model 3 or ID4 if they have a $4k rebate available.
 
I want to say yes based on what I've read and saw. Realistically the faster the miles rack up especially with conservative charging habits like that, the higher chance you'd see of actually getting really high mileage. I would say it would be easier to get 300k miles out of an EV in 10 years with a decent amount of range left in the end than doing 150k miles after 20 years.

It will save a lot of cost for maintenance and per mile driving. At 30k a year, I'd budget a set of tires every year. With the right car you'd make it 2 years on tires even if it was ICE, but then you'll make up for it in fuel and service. It's doable.
 
oil pan 4 said:
My 7 year old leaf had lost over 80% of it's sticker price by the time I bought it.
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There is that as well. A lot of the issue there is the lack of temperature control systems for the battery. The battery is a bit more dependent on the climate they're used than a car that is temperature managed which has affected resale. Probably not the first choice for putting on 30k miles a year, but I'm sure it could be done.
 
Depends, the 70 mile trips for commuting add up to nowhere near 30k miles. If there are lots of long road trips involved charging out on the open highway could be an issue with the current situation.
 
If you have free level 2 charging at work, charge at level 1 at home since it's overnight.

Fast charging can shorten battery life, though level 2 shouldn't be too much of a problem. But I'd still charge at level 1 as often as possible, if there is enough time to do so (overnight, for example).

Like someone else already said, the Leaf doesn't have battery cooling or any kind of thermal management, which also hurts battery life and makes used Leaves worthless.
 
An educated consumer can purchase a used EV, for far less than the pro-rated value by miles or years. I'd avoid an ultra short range EV, as it will continue to lose range well into uselessness, and will be needing an expensive battery sooner.

A quick search near me shows a few Model 3's for around $20K, no accidents, under 60K miles. That's exactly half the cost of a new Model 3 base model. Which as of today is roughly $41K, being $39K plus order/delivery fees of $1,700.

I'd expect a used, low mile 2022 Model 3 to go 250K miles if charged smartly (slowly) and driven often. Or about 10-12 years in total since new.
 
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Torrid said:
There is that as well. A lot of the issue there is the lack of temperature control systems for the battery. The battery is a bit more dependent on the climate they're used than a car that is temperature managed which has affected resale. Probably not the first choice for putting on 30k miles a year, but I'm sure it could be done.
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I only put 16,000 miles on it per year. About double that would really suck.
 
Sounds like a Tesla will usually make about 250,000 miles before "needing" a battery replacement, which according to Tesla means a reduction in maximum charge (ie range) to 70 or 80% of the original. And that was for Model Ss that were used as limos and regularly charged to 100% at a Tesla Supercharger and then run down to practically zip (which would be quite brutal to the battery).

Actually with my usage I'd still be fine at 70% of the initial maximum charge/range.

If you have access to a free level 2 charger at work, after a 70 mile round trip, you can charge a Tesla Model 3 back up to 80% in a few hours (maybe 3, possibly 4). So that charging regime should be quite doable.
 
I have read data that said Tesla's battery aging is better than what you have concern for. It "should" last 200k without degrading more than 20%. The rest of the car from a "move fast and break things" company is what concerns me. There are lots of problem with body shop waiting for parts, and when they age do you have problem finding quirky parts like interior pieces, weird electronics like those control module with worn out flash from poor design, when all it take is Elon says "we discontinued it" and you are stuck? VW may have an even worse problem if they discontinue the model.

Will you have problem in the New Hampshire winter? or will you have another gas car to fall back to? The heating could destroy the range and it is not like a gas car with waste heat from the engine to warm you up.

Will your 5 days and your wife's 3 days overlap? Will Prius plug in be safer? I would make sure to think about all the what ifs, but that free charging should really save you a lot to compensate for all the trouble.
 
slacktide_bitog said:
If you have free level 2 charging at work, charge at level 1 at home since it's overnight.

Fast charging can shorten battery life, though level 2 shouldn't be too much of a problem. But I'd still charge at level 1 as often as possible, if there is enough time to do so (overnight, for example).

Like someone else already said, the Leaf doesn't have battery cooling or any kind of thermal management, which also hurts battery life and makes used Leaves worthless.
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Level 1 is less efficient. Level 3 is the most efficient to some degree, but then requires careful management, including preheating the battery, so that requires energy. Level 2 bridges the gap between not needing careful thermal management and higher charging efficiency.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/why-doesnt-your-battery-get-all-the-energy-you-pay-for

If an EV is just sitting around while someone is out of the country, Level 1 with a max 50% charge might be an option to prolong battery life. Middle of the charge range is ideal for long term storage.
 
y_p_w said:
Level 1 is less efficient. Level 3 is the most efficient to some degree, but then requires careful management, including preheating the battery, so that requires energy. Level 2 bridges the gap between not needing careful thermal management and higher charging efficiency.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/why-doesnt-your-battery-get-all-the-energy-you-pay-for

If an EV is just sitting around while someone is out of the country, Level 1 with a max 50% charge might be an option to prolong battery life. Middle of the charge range is ideal for long term storage.
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I would definitely do that if I had to let a car sit. I've left modern cars with what I thought was a good 12V battery for 2-3 weeks and not had enough juice to start them. Most EVs when not driven don't charge the accessory battery, but usually don't limit topping it up if attached to a power source. Could save a lot of trouble later keeping it plugged into 120v. I would likely do that before I'd leave the 240v hooked up since the goal is to maintain.
 
Torrid said:
I would definitely do that if I had to let a car sit. I've left modern cars with what I thought was a good 12V battery for 2-3 weeks and not had enough juice to start them. Most EVs when not driven don't charge the accessory battery, but usually don't limit topping it up if attached to a power source. Could save a lot of trouble later keeping it plugged into 120v. I would likely do that before I'd leave the 240v hooked up since the goal is to maintain.
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For battery maintenance it’s fine. I suppose one concern about leaving a an EV charging that long is fire risk when unattended. It’s not that big an issue, but there certainly less fire risk from 120V.
 
y_p_w said:
For battery maintenance it’s fine. I suppose one concern about leaving a an EV charging that long is fire risk when unattended. It’s not that big an issue, but there certainly less fire risk from 120V.
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That was my reasoning. It wasn't going to need a bigger level of current, so I was just thinking of not making it available.
 
Torrid said:
That was my reasoning. It wasn't going to need a bigger level of current, so I was just thinking of not making it available.
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Sure. I'm not sure what's best though. With TOU rates it might be easiest to set to start charging at the lowest rate once per day, although I'm not sure if little daily charges like that are the best thing for battery longevity. However, I've heard that the best thing might be to do something like wait for a 5% drop before charging, then charging from 45-50% at one time. I suppose it might be possible to combine that with a start time, but someone would need to program something like that. I suppose it could also be done manually by turning off scheduled charging and monitoring it remotely. Then schedule charging for lowest TOU rates when it goes below a set threshold.

It would be nice if there were some way to program that or maybe a battery maintenance setting.
 
SeaJay said:
Depends, the 70 mile trips for commuting add up to nowhere near 30k miles. If there are lots of long road trips involved charging out on the open highway could be an issue with the current situation.
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My commute is 80mi, 3x per week, plus any time I want to go into town. I average 25k a year or so.
 
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