ConocoPhilips blended groups II+ & III ?

[kmrcstintn]

I am refering to the ConocoPhilips family of products:

Conoco, TropArc, Kendall, Motorcraft, Unocol 76, etc

1) are these a group II+ & group III blend?

2) are the additive packages the same for each brand?

3) between Kendall & Motorcraft (these are the 2 brands that I can get easily in my area) which is the better additive package?

 

[Johnny]

1) Yes
2) No
3) IMHO Motorcraft

 

[delacerda]

The Motorcraft MSDS states that it contains 75% to 85% CAS 64742-54-7 (group III).

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Quote:

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I am refering to the ConocoPhilips family of products:

Conoco, TropArc, Kendall, Motorcraft, Unocol 76, etc

1) are these a group II+ & group III blend?
2) are the additive packages the same for each brand?
3) between Kendall & Motorcraft (these are the 2 brands that I can get easily in my area) which is the better additive package?

---

Some here (like me) seem to feel that when you see the same add-pack for both Motorcraft at $2.59 and Trop Artic at $1.59, that the base oil group percentage mix is NOT the same & that's the reason for the retail price-differential.

Motorcraft is a better oil than Kendall.... & Kendall is better oil than Trop Artic. I base that on retail price structure. I'm not familiar with the other two Conoco brands & where they fit in the Conoco-grading ladder system.

 

[Rand]

In my area kendall = 1.65@autozone
motorcraft =>2.20$

 

[delacerda]

There is a post on Motorcraft oils here.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Quote:

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The Motorcraft MSDS states that it contains 75% to 85% CAS 64742-54-7 (group III).

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64742-54-7 Hydrotreated heavy paraffinic: could be group II or III. My guess would be group II in a $2 per quart oil advertised as a blend & NOT a full syn.

I'm no expert, just my opinion.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

75-85% is total base oil, they use the same CAS # which includes a blend of Grp II and III. Formulation differences based on price points is pure speculation therefore I use tropartic with confidence.

 

[Blue99]

UOA reports show that Motorcraft & Tropartic have very similar metallic additive levels, with approx. 150 ppm Boron, 30-50 ppm of moly and around 1900 ppm of Calcium.

My best guess is that the base oil percentages are the same, as usually lower VI index base oils require more additives to meet the high temp & keep clean requirements.

I think Motorcraft is generally conceeded to be the premium formulation out of the group & it would'nt surprise me if it contained a better quality VI improver or friction modifiers that lasted longer thru the OCI.

- Just my

 

[427Z06]

Only Group II+ base stocks or better are capable of making 5W-20 and 5w30 GF-3 and GF-4 engine oils without using any correction fluids.

If Group II base stocks are used to make 5W-20 and 5w30 GF-3 and GF-4 engine oils, some correction fluid (Group III) will most likely be required.

The above implies, MC synthetic blends (and it's sister brands) are mostly group II based, with a slug of Group III as a correction fluid.

CAS 64742-54-7 is Mineral Paraffininc Base Oil - VI of +94 to 120, any group # from I to III.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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The above implies, MC synthetic blends (and it's sister brands) are mostly group II based, with a slug of Group III as a correction fluid.

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Bingo.

 

[mark pruett]

Quote:

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Motorcraft is a better oil than Kendall.... & Kendall is better oil than Trop Artic. I base that on retail price structure. I'm not familiar with the other two Conoco brands & where they fit in the Conoco-grading ladder system.

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I doubt that it's quite so simple. I'm not saying that they do or do not do this, but ConocoPhillips could very easily sell the same oil under 3 brand names at 3 different prices, and just make more money on the Motorcraft and Kendall than they do on the TropArtic.

After all, why make 3 different blends if you can sell the same one as 3 different brand names aimed at different market segments, and (this is the crux of the argument) make more money by doing so than if you'd have made 3 different brands?

Considering that most people will buy "brand name" rather than by performance, it makes perfect sense.

A lot of the people around here need to take a marketing course or two so that they'll understand how things like price and branding work. They don't necessarily have a great deal to do with the actual quality of the product.

 

[427Z06]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Motorcraft is a better oil than Kendall.... & Kendall is better oil than Trop Artic. I base that on retail price structure. I'm not familiar with the other two Conoco brands & where they fit in the Conoco-grading ladder system.

---

I doubt that it's quite so simple. I'm not saying that they do or do not do this, but ConocoPhillips could very easily sell the same oil under 3 brand names at 3 different prices, and just make more money on the Motorcraft and Kendall than they do on the TropArtic.

After all, why make 3 different blends if you can sell the same one as 3 different brand names aimed at different market segments, and (this is the crux of the argument) make more money by doing so than if you'd have made 3 different brands?

Considering that most people will buy "brand name" rather than by performance, it makes perfect sense.

A lot of the people around here need to take a marketing course or two so that they'll understand how things like price and branding work. They don't necessarily have a great deal to do with the actual quality of the product.

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Bingo number 2.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Yep

Packaging 101

 

[Bryanccfshr]

From the Tropartic MSDS

The base oil for this product can be a mixture of any of the following highly refined petroleum streams: CAS 64741-88-4; CAS 64741-
89-5; CAS 64741-96-4; CAS 64741-97-5; CAS 64742-01-4; CAS 64742-52-5; CAS 64742-53-6; CAS 64742-54-7; CAS 64742-55-8;
CAS 64742-56-9; CAS 64742-57-0; CAS 64742-62-7; CAS 64742-63-8; CAS 64742-65-0; CAS 72623-83-7; CAS 72623-85-9; CAS
72623-86-0; CAS 72623-87-1

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Quote:

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75-85% is total base oil, they use the same CAS # which includes a blend of Grp II and III. Formulation differences based on price points is pure speculation therefore I use tropartic with confidence.

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Actually Bryan... it's more than specualtion -- it's common sense. No one gives away oil for free -- or at a reduced profit for very long. Sometinmes they will run a sale for a month or two -- but that's it.

If you feel Trop Artic is the same as Motorcraft, then that's fine. Did you know its illegal for them to manufacture (2 or more) of identical oils and charge differently for each - using different labels?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Read all the PDS's and they are all manufactured to the same target specifications. Blenders work with what they have on hand to meet the target.
You can believe what you want about paying more and getting more, people who market products need to justify their wages through a certain percent of the population.

 

[trixman]

If they are all the same. Where can you pick up TropArt?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

in reference there are some small variations in flashpoint while the pour points seem to have a wider variation with these differences I retract my statement on the oils being of the same specs(although mostlyh very close). Another questionable is the variations in pour point yet identical cold crank viscosities, other than '76(a target minimum?).If anyone ever gets a PDS for Motorcraft let me know. Please compare and evaluate.
Kendall GT-1™ High Performance Synthetic Blend Motor Oil
Typical Properties
SAE GRADE 5W-20 5w30 10w30
Density, g/cm3 @ 15.6ºC (60ºF) 0.852 0.853 0.865
Color, ASTM D1500 3.0 3.0 3.0
Flash Point (COC), ºC (ºF) 223 (433) 223 (433) 224 (435)
Pour Point, ºC (ºF) -31 (-24) -31 (-24) -31 (-24)
Viscosity,
cSt @ 40ºC 48.3 61.3 66.4
cSt @ 100ºC 8.5 10.9 10.8
SUS @ 100ºF 246 311 339
SUS @ 210ºF 54.7 63.3 63.0
Viscosity Index 163 166 153
Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP 3,700 5,300 3,800
@ºC -30 -30 -25
High Temp/High Shear Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.7 3.1 3.1
Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 0.97 0.97 0.97
Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 7.8 7.8 7.8
Phosphorus, wt % 0.078 0.078 0.078
• API Service SM, SL
• Energy Conserving, ILSAC GF-4
• DaimlerChrysler MS-6395N, MS-6395L
• Ford WSS-M2C929-A (SAE 5w30), WSS-M2C930-A
(SAE 5W-20), WSS-M2C205-A (SAE 10w30)
• GM 6094M, GM 9986202 (SAE 5W-20), GM 9986231
(SAE 5w30)



TropArtic® Synthetic Blend Motor Oil
Typical Properties
SAE Grade 5W-20 5w30 10w30
Density, g/cm3 @ 15.6°C (60°F) 0.852 0.854 0.862
Color, ASTM D1500 3.5 3.0 3.0
Flash Point (COC), °C (°F) 224 (435) 221 (430) 224 (435)
Pour Point, °C (°F) -42 (-44) -42 (-44) -42 (-44)
Viscosity,
cSt @ 40°C 48.8 64.0 66.0
cSt @ 100°C 8.6 10.9 10.9
SUS @ 100°F 248 325 336
SUS @ 210°F 55.1 63.4 63.4
Viscosity Index 164 163 157
Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP 3,700 5,300 3,500
@ °C -30 -30 -25
High-Temp/High-Shear Viscosity, cP @ 150°C 2.6 3.1 3.1
Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 0.97 0.97 0.97
Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 7.8 7.8 7.8
Phosphorus, wt % 0.078 0.078 0.078
• API Service SM, SL
• Energy Conserving, ILSAC GF-4
• DaimlerChrysler MS-6395N, MS-6395L
• Ford WSS-M2C929-A (SAE 5w30), WSS-M2C930-A
(SAE 5W-20), WSS-M2C205-A (SAE 10w30)
• GM 6094M (all grades), GM 9986202 (SAE 5W-20),
GM 9986231 (SAE 5w30)


CONOCO Super All Season Synthetic Blend Motor Oil
Typical Properties
SAE GRADE 5W-20 5w30 10w30
Density, g/cm3 @ 15.6ºC (60ºF) 0.852 0.854 0.862
Color, ASTM D1500 3.5 3.0 3.0
Flash Point (COC), ºC (ºF) 224 (435) 221 (430) 224 (435)
Pour Point, ºC (ºF) -31 (-24) -31 (-24) -31 (-24)
Viscosity,
cSt @ 40ºC 48.8 64.0 66.0
cSt @ 100ºC 8.6 10.9 10.9
SUS @ 100ºF 248 325 336
SUS @ 210ºF 55.1 63.4 63.4
Viscosity Index 164 163 157
Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP 3,700 5,300 3,500
@ºC -30 -30 -25
High Temp/High Shear Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.6 3.1 3.1
Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 0.97 0.97 0.97
Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 7.8 7.8 7.8
Phosphorus, wt % 0.078 0.078 0.078

• API Service SM, SL
• Energy Conserving, ILSAC GF-4
• DaimlerChrysler MS-6395N, MS-6395L
• Ford WSS-M2C929-A (SAE 5w30), WSS-M2C930-A
(SAE 5W-20), WSS-M2C205A (SAE 10w30)
• GM 6094M, GM 9986202 (SAE 5W-20), GM 9986231
(SAE 5w30)

76 Super Synthetic Blend Motor Oil
Typical Properties
SAE GRADE 5W-20 5w30 10w30
Density, g/cm3 @ 15.6ºC (60ºF) 0.852 0.853 0.871
Color, ASTM D1500 L4.0 L4.0 3.0
Flash Point (COC), ºC (ºF) 236 (457) 223 (433) 229 (444)
Pour Point, ºC (ºF) -31 (-24) -31 (-24) -31 (-24)
Viscosity,
cSt @ 40ºC 46.3 62.0 63.1
cSt @ 100ºC 8.6 10.8 10.8
SUS @ 100ºF 235 315 321
SUS @ 210ºF 55.1 63.0 63.0
Viscosity Index 165 167 163
Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP 3,800 4,700 3,000
@ ºC -30 -30 -25
High Temp/High Shear Viscosity, cP @ 150ºC 2.6 3.1 3.1
Sulfated Ash, ASTM D874, wt % 0.97 0.97 0.97
Total Base Number (TBN), ASTM D2896 7.8 7.8 7.8
Phosphorus, wt % 0.078 0.078 0.078

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Walmart, Sams club, Keep an eye out for it. When it was at WM consistantly I was picking up 6 every time I stepped foot into the store. I knew that the price was to good to last.