Assume speaker A has impedance of 8 Ohm and speaker B has impedance of 6 Ohm. If we connect both speakers in parallel to an amp, will speaker B receive more of the amp's power because it provides less resistance?
Connecting speakers in parallel
- Thread starter Quattro Pete
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http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/Audio/spkimp_SpeakerImpedanceMatching.html
tl;dr: impedance mismatch causes problems
tl;dr: impedance mismatch causes problems
More ohms or resistance means less connectivity. Hence less power for the 8 ohm vs 6 ohm.
Power = voltage squared over resistance.
So, yes, when connected in parallel, the two will have the same voltage applied, so the one with the lower impedance will receive the most power.
The resulting impedance of the two in parallel will be around 3.4 ohms.
So, yes, when connected in parallel, the two will have the same voltage applied, so the one with the lower impedance will receive the most power.
The resulting impedance of the two in parallel will be around 3.4 ohms.
It depends. There is a difference between DC resistance and AC impedance. The later is frequency dependant, the former is not. Some LS's have a smooth impedance plot, others not even close.
Speaker impedance does indeed vary depending on frequency.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Speaker impedance does indeed vary depending on frequency.
And the design of the speaker.
Speaker impedance does indeed vary depending on frequency.
And the design of the speaker.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Speaker impedance does indeed vary depending on frequency.
This is one of the least appreciated and most misunderstood concepts in the hobby. The nominal impedance rating of a loudspeaker is of very limited use to good amplifier/speaker pairing. The actual speaker load at the lowest octaves better dictates amplifier matching. An 8 ohm nominal design that dips under 2 ohms below 250hz demands a more robust amplifier than a 4 ohm speaker with a flatter impedance curve across the range. And the robustness of an amplifier is better gauged by its real world current delivery into low impedances than its advertised wattage rating.
Speaker impedance does indeed vary depending on frequency.
This is one of the least appreciated and most misunderstood concepts in the hobby. The nominal impedance rating of a loudspeaker is of very limited use to good amplifier/speaker pairing. The actual speaker load at the lowest octaves better dictates amplifier matching. An 8 ohm nominal design that dips under 2 ohms below 250hz demands a more robust amplifier than a 4 ohm speaker with a flatter impedance curve across the range. And the robustness of an amplifier is better gauged by its real world current delivery into low impedances than its advertised wattage rating.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Speaker impedance does indeed vary depending on frequency.
Right,D, that's why it's impedance and not resistance. Anything inductive or capacitive has an impedance (reactance) to alternating current that is frequency dependent and also a voltage/current phase shift.
Speaker impedance does indeed vary depending on frequency.
Right,D, that's why it's impedance and not resistance. Anything inductive or capacitive has an impedance (reactance) to alternating current that is frequency dependent and also a voltage/current phase shift.
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
And the robustness of an amplifier is better gauged by its real world current delivery into low impedances than its advertised wattage rating.
Oh, so true. Very astute.
And the robustness of an amplifier is better gauged by its real world current delivery into low impedances than its advertised wattage rating.
Oh, so true. Very astute.
Self-proclaimed Audiophile here... I have gone through dozens of home theater speaker setups with many receivers and amplifiers from cheap low-end to expensive high-end (and expensive garbage; I am downsizing my current main setup though and starting fresh, again), and have a nice car audio system (Focal, JL)... I also own 13 pairs of headphones (5 being Grado, my favorite headphone mfgr, with the RS2i's being my go-to cans, though I have so many others because as amazing as Grado's sound they are NOT good as monitor headphones... I use Audio Technica and Beyerdynamics for that) and six headphone amps... All collected over many years.
But in all honesty, and this is from someone whose college education still is ongoing due to multiple-focuses, with the main one being Biochemical Engineering (Psychopharmacology)...
The whole Ohms-thing makes my head spin! I always feel like I "got it" only to start getting confused again, read more, and end up further confused!
I don't know why I have such trouble with it, but I am glad I am not an electrical engineer!
But in all honesty, and this is from someone whose college education still is ongoing due to multiple-focuses, with the main one being Biochemical Engineering (Psychopharmacology)...
The whole Ohms-thing makes my head spin! I always feel like I "got it" only to start getting confused again, read more, and end up further confused!
I don't know why I have such trouble with it, but I am glad I am not an electrical engineer!
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
An 8 ohm nominal design that dips under 2 ohms below 250hz demands a more robust amplifier than a 4 ohm speaker with a flatter impedance curve across the range. And the robustness of an amplifier is better gauged by its real world current delivery into low impedances than its advertised wattage rating.
Well, I guess without access to the particular speakers' impedance-frequency curves, it's really impossible to answer my original question.
As for the amp, it's a Class D amp designed to handle 2 Ohm loads, at least on paper...
An 8 ohm nominal design that dips under 2 ohms below 250hz demands a more robust amplifier than a 4 ohm speaker with a flatter impedance curve across the range. And the robustness of an amplifier is better gauged by its real world current delivery into low impedances than its advertised wattage rating.
Well, I guess without access to the particular speakers' impedance-frequency curves, it's really impossible to answer my original question.
As for the amp, it's a Class D amp designed to handle 2 Ohm loads, at least on paper...
Originally Posted By: nleksan
I use Audio Technica
Just curious, which AT model?
I use Audio Technica
Just curious, which AT model?
ATH-AD700 (open, excellent sound throughout and just a bit below similarly-priced Grado's in sound quality, much better than any Sennheiser under $350)
ATH-ESW9 Sovereign Wood Monitors
ATH-AD900 (open, but very neutral... use with computer for editing)
My Grado's are my favorites for pleasure listening, and I rely on them during playback of edited video to get a feel for "real world sound" as you can make something sound fantastic using Monitors for listening with Monitors but will sound awful on "common" and even audiophile cans that are not perfectly neutral. Same reason I have a set of $1800 JBL 3-Way Studio Monitor Speakers and the matching subwoofer at my PC, sitting next to a $75 set of 2.1 Creative speakers... Both driven by the same amped sound card, they sound very different.
ATH-ESW9 Sovereign Wood Monitors
ATH-AD900 (open, but very neutral... use with computer for editing)
My Grado's are my favorites for pleasure listening, and I rely on them during playback of edited video to get a feel for "real world sound" as you can make something sound fantastic using Monitors for listening with Monitors but will sound awful on "common" and even audiophile cans that are not perfectly neutral. Same reason I have a set of $1800 JBL 3-Way Studio Monitor Speakers and the matching subwoofer at my PC, sitting next to a $75 set of 2.1 Creative speakers... Both driven by the same amped sound card, they sound very different.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Well, I guess without access to the particular speakers' impedance-frequency curves, it's really impossible to answer my original question.
As for the amp, it's a Class D amp designed to handle 2 Ohm loads, at least on paper...
Well perhaps my response was just a bit too much information. Didn't mean to confuse you. Lower impedances will pull more current from the output stage of the amp, and for traditional linear amps, cause them to run hotter. However, your class D is most likely a switcher. Have you hooked it up yet?
Well, I guess without access to the particular speakers' impedance-frequency curves, it's really impossible to answer my original question.
As for the amp, it's a Class D amp designed to handle 2 Ohm loads, at least on paper...
Well perhaps my response was just a bit too much information. Didn't mean to confuse you. Lower impedances will pull more current from the output stage of the amp, and for traditional linear amps, cause them to run hotter. However, your class D is most likely a switcher. Have you hooked it up yet?
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Have you hooked it up yet?
Yes. The amp is fine. I wasn't really worried about the amp when I started this post.
I was just trying to understand which of the two sets of speakers will be receiving more of its power.
Have you hooked it up yet?
Yes. The amp is fine. I wasn't really worried about the amp when I started this post.
The 6 ohm speaker should receive the most "power".
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Well, I guess without access to the particular speakers' impedance-frequency curves, it's really impossible to answer my original question.
As for the amp, it's a Class D amp designed to handle 2 Ohm loads, at least on paper...
Not to make this any harder, but the impedance curve is just one factor in the matching equation. Other factors, such as the speaker's efficiency (SPL), the listening area volume, the loudness levels anticipated or desired, and even the music type favored, all play a role in speaker to amp matching.
Every amplifier is potentially capable of driving a 2 ohm (or less) driver load. The real question is how many amps is the speaker asking for at that impedance to produce the intended frequency at the SPLs required for a balanced response at desired loudness levels. If it's an old K-Horn, a Walkman might do the job. But some others might require an amp that takes two guys to carry. There is no substitute for iron and electrolytic paste when it comes to power supply reserves.
And then once you add the timbral element (or voicing as some like to call it in the hobby), the good matching of speaker to amplifier becomes a bit of an art. No audio component is perfect, or perfectly "neutral", and all have what some call a "voice" or timbral/tonal signature. Some amps and speakers are warmish or "musical", others cooler or "transparent" sounding. The same goes for front end components, and it can even devolve into discrete parts inside each box. Right down to the resistors and caps used. None is bad, per se, and the skill is in balancing each system piece against the others to reach the result you are after. And you don't have to spend megathousands to reach a very nice result. It's a bit like cooking: all one ingredient usually doesn't taste as good ;a dash of this and a pinch of that all contribute to a good dish.
For instance, a larger Thiel usually needs a high current (and very high quality) SS amp on the warmer side to do its best (getting sufficient grunt in tubes can get really expensive with them), while someone fond of vintage Tannoys will almost always lean towards lower powered, but very tonally nuanced, bottles. Both will be very happy with the results with a thoughtful pairing. Some folks are bass freaks. Others (like me) value vocals and place a premium on the midrange. Others love a clear detailed top end. That also plays a part in system building. But the most important ELECTRICAL match in the system is that between power amp and speaker driver. A lot of careful front end matching can be quickly undone by a speaker that is improperly driven by the wrong amp. Many people who complain about Thiels sounding "cold" fall into this category, when the paired amp is unable to deliver sufficient clean current at the bottom octave and the relative SPLs at those frequencies sag, throwing off the tonal balance.
Working in a vacuum with your OP, a "6 ohm" speaker often draws more "power" than an "8 ohm" one. But power is not everything. Good power is expensive, and sometimes aural compromises are made elsewhere even in the best designs to get more of it. Buy only what you need. As others have said, the first watt is the most important one, and there is a wide variation in quality in that first watt among manufacturers.
A class D amp can sound decent as long as you don't drive it too hard. But in SS, nothing sounds as good (or runs as hot) as pure class A. Ask any old Threshold owner. But I'll still take my vintage tubes for tonal nirvana, thank you.
Playing with the equipment is a large part of the hobby. As long as it does not supplant the ultimate goal of enjoying the music and artists (so many get trapped into chronically listening to their equipment - and forget about the music itself), it can be very enjoyable.
And then there are the measurable vs. the audible (but unmeasurable) religious wars to contend with. After over 40 years in the hobby, that is all best ignored with a quiet smile.
More than you wanted or likely needed to hear. I guess we'll leave it at that.
There are some good dedicated Internet fora to cover this further if you desire, such as Audiokarma and Audio Asylum.
Well, I guess without access to the particular speakers' impedance-frequency curves, it's really impossible to answer my original question.
As for the amp, it's a Class D amp designed to handle 2 Ohm loads, at least on paper...
Not to make this any harder, but the impedance curve is just one factor in the matching equation. Other factors, such as the speaker's efficiency (SPL), the listening area volume, the loudness levels anticipated or desired, and even the music type favored, all play a role in speaker to amp matching.
Every amplifier is potentially capable of driving a 2 ohm (or less) driver load. The real question is how many amps is the speaker asking for at that impedance to produce the intended frequency at the SPLs required for a balanced response at desired loudness levels. If it's an old K-Horn, a Walkman might do the job. But some others might require an amp that takes two guys to carry. There is no substitute for iron and electrolytic paste when it comes to power supply reserves.
And then once you add the timbral element (or voicing as some like to call it in the hobby), the good matching of speaker to amplifier becomes a bit of an art. No audio component is perfect, or perfectly "neutral", and all have what some call a "voice" or timbral/tonal signature. Some amps and speakers are warmish or "musical", others cooler or "transparent" sounding. The same goes for front end components, and it can even devolve into discrete parts inside each box. Right down to the resistors and caps used. None is bad, per se, and the skill is in balancing each system piece against the others to reach the result you are after. And you don't have to spend megathousands to reach a very nice result. It's a bit like cooking: all one ingredient usually doesn't taste as good ;a dash of this and a pinch of that all contribute to a good dish.
For instance, a larger Thiel usually needs a high current (and very high quality) SS amp on the warmer side to do its best (getting sufficient grunt in tubes can get really expensive with them), while someone fond of vintage Tannoys will almost always lean towards lower powered, but very tonally nuanced, bottles. Both will be very happy with the results with a thoughtful pairing. Some folks are bass freaks. Others (like me) value vocals and place a premium on the midrange. Others love a clear detailed top end. That also plays a part in system building. But the most important ELECTRICAL match in the system is that between power amp and speaker driver. A lot of careful front end matching can be quickly undone by a speaker that is improperly driven by the wrong amp. Many people who complain about Thiels sounding "cold" fall into this category, when the paired amp is unable to deliver sufficient clean current at the bottom octave and the relative SPLs at those frequencies sag, throwing off the tonal balance.
Working in a vacuum with your OP, a "6 ohm" speaker often draws more "power" than an "8 ohm" one. But power is not everything. Good power is expensive, and sometimes aural compromises are made elsewhere even in the best designs to get more of it. Buy only what you need. As others have said, the first watt is the most important one, and there is a wide variation in quality in that first watt among manufacturers.
A class D amp can sound decent as long as you don't drive it too hard. But in SS, nothing sounds as good (or runs as hot) as pure class A. Ask any old Threshold owner. But I'll still take my vintage tubes for tonal nirvana, thank you.
Playing with the equipment is a large part of the hobby. As long as it does not supplant the ultimate goal of enjoying the music and artists (so many get trapped into chronically listening to their equipment - and forget about the music itself), it can be very enjoyable.
And then there are the measurable vs. the audible (but unmeasurable) religious wars to contend with. After over 40 years in the hobby, that is all best ignored with a quiet smile.
More than you wanted or likely needed to hear. I guess we'll leave it at that.
There are some good dedicated Internet fora to cover this further if you desire, such as Audiokarma and Audio Asylum.
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