Confused. Mercon V or Dexron VI?

MolaKule

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Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
Originally Posted by Kira
If we're taking votes here put me down for MERCON V. I too like Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc LV but it is, as stated above, a lower viscosity fluid frequently singled out. MERCON V is specced. Why not use it? Be glad the Dex/Merc LV is so usable. Be glad MERCON V is so available.
+1. Lubegard does make an additive for FMC's cars requiring Mercon V in the green bottle that essentially converts any trans fluid to V. But I'd stick with Mercon V...
I would stay away from conversion fluids. They are not what you think.
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
....none of these companies makes fluids so they have chosen their specs fluid from products made by oil blenders. Therefore most ATF fluids like other oils are extremely similar. Hence why there are universal oils and fluids. There isn't that much difference...if any.
I think you have that reversed and that is not how it is done. The OEM's send their specifications to additive companies. The additive companies develop an additive to meet the spec using their additive chemistry and selected base oils. Once the OEM has the additive company's recipe (formulation), they can send that recipe out to any capable blender for production.
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
....none of these companies makes fluids so they have chosen their specs fluid from products made by oil blenders. Therefore most ATF fluids like other oils are extremely similar. Hence why there are universal oils and fluids. There isn't that much difference...if any.
I think you have that reversed and that is not how it is done. The OEM's send their specifications to additive companies. The additive companies develop an additive to meet the spec using their additive chemistry and selected base oils. Once the OEM has the additive company's recipe (formulation), they can send that recipe out to any capable blender for production.
I think we are saying the same things or trying too.....I don't believe there are truly that many unique differences in ATF and since ATFs are similar in design, function and spec the fluids are too. This is why universal or multi vehicle fluids can exist. Ford and GM are sharing a ATF..codeveloped....same tranny except for programming...GM specs their fluid Ford theirs. I'm trying to say I think it's totally logical Maxlife ATF can meet spec for a wide range of vehicles.
 
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Originally Posted by ToadU
I'm trying to say I think it's totally logical Maxlife ATF can meet spec for a wide range of vehicles.
Well I doubt it meets the different specs, those would be exclusive by definition. However, it works well enough in those applications that call for the respective specs.
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Beatlebob32
I'm facing the same question as the OP, but in regards to my 97 Town Car, 99k. Valvoline (my general first choice) also has a Merc V that also isn't- "recommended for Merc V" but sans the the actual copyrighted Merc V designation.
Did you read the PDS I posted? #5298615 It does say recommended for Mercon V in the chart. The Mercon V TM designation has to be there for legal purposes.
I think what he meant to say is that even though Valvoline "recommends" it for Mercon V applications, it's not an officially licensed fluid. I remember back when it used it be officially licensed (I think I still have a quart or two of the old stuff that was licensed), then it was no longer licensed. This happened roughly 10 years ago; I remember making a thread on here about it. The officially licensed stuff was also a full synthetic, while the current stuff is synthetic blend. The fact that it's not officially licensed anymore doesn't really sit right with me, and I plan to switch to a different brand that is officially licensed on my next fluid change.
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted by exranger06
I think what he meant to say is that even though Valvoline "recommends" it for Mercon V applications, it's not an officially licensed fluid.
I don't think anyone said it was licensed.
Originally Posted by exranger06
The officially licensed stuff was also a full synthetic, while the current stuff is synthetic blend. The fact that it's not officially licensed anymore doesn't really sit right with me, and I plan to switch to a different brand that is officially licensed on my next fluid change.
How do you know that either fluid was a full synthetic or a Blend? Is Ford still issuing licences for Mercon V?
 
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Castrol multi vehicle import atf is officially licensed mercon v. It states it clearly on the back. In fact it's the only license on the package.
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
How do you know that either fluid was a full synthetic or a Blend?
I know the old stuff was full synthetic because the bottles used to say "full synthetic" on them. I know the new stuff isn't because 1. It doesn't say "full synthetic" on the bottle anymore, and 2. I once emailed Valvoline (after it was no longer licensed) and asked them if it was full synthetic and they told me it was a synthetic blend. Also, their FAQ page says they make several full synthetic ATFs: Maxlife, Dexron VI, and ATF+4, but no mention of their Mercon V product.
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Is Ford still issuing licences for Mercon V?
Ford has not made any announcement or issued any TSBs saying that Mercon V is obsolete, or that anything supersedes it, like they did when they made Mercon obsolete. You can still buy Motorcraft Mercon V at the Ford dealer. Castrol's Mercon V is still "certified and approved by Ford" for Mercon V applications, and Supertech says their Mercon V is still officially licensed so, apparently, yes Ford is still issuing licenses.
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Is Ford still issuing licences for Mercon V?... ... You can still buy Motorcraft Mercon V at the Ford dealer. Castrol's Mercon V is still "certified and approved by Ford" for Mercon V applications, and Supertech says their Mercon V is still officially licensed so, apparently, yes Ford is still issuing licenses.
Well then apparently Ford is still licensing Mercon V. Therefore, if you want a licensed Mercon V then you would have to use one or more of the products mentioned above with a Ford licensing number on either the bottle or as found in the PDS. So everyone has some options as to their choice of a Mercon V fluid. When Valvoline dropped their Mercon V license they did not toss their Mercon V formulation into the trash. As far as synthetic or blend, when Valvoline says synthetic they mean Group III through V with Group III predominating. A Blend is a mixture of Group II through Group V with Group II predominating. To the OP AcadiaDave, use a Dexron VI or Dexron VI-type ATF which would include a Multi-vehicle fluid such as MaxLife ATF.
 
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MolaKule

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If we take that analysis in the thread to be correct,
Quote
[Valvoline cheapened out their Mercon V ATF. I used it in the past when their formulation was better than Motorcraft. Now, I will keep away from their ATF]
An opinion and not a professional assessment. So what made this fluid to be considered cheapened? The author never stated why.
Quote
Valvoline Mercon V Formulation of June 2007 Viscosity @ 100�C, cSt 7.12 Specific Gravity @ 60�F 0.8528 Flash Point, �C 210 Brookfield Viscosity @ -40�C, cP 12,000 Color Red Phosphorus, ppm 550 Valvoline Mercon V New formulation January 2009 Viscosity @ 100�C, cSt 7.4 Specific Gravity @ 60�F 0.860 Flash Point, �C 190 Brookfield Viscosity @ -40�C, cP 10,000 Color Red Phosphorus, ppm 650 Contrast Valvoline Mercon V to Motorcraft Mercon V MOTORCRAFT� MERCON�V AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID Specific Gravity @ 60�F (15.6�C): 0.863 Density, lb/gal: 7.19 Flash Point, COC, �C (�F): 196 (385) Viscosity: cSt @ 40�C: 33.2 cSt @ 100�C: 7.5 -cP @ -40�C: 10,000 Viscosity Index: 205 Pour Point, �C (�F): <-48
What has been the phosphorus content and variation of Mercon V since its inception? Has it always been the same? Phosphorous is not the only component that matters. Phosphorous is mainly an AW agent but so is Boron. If I increase Boron I can decrease the phosphorus content. If I increase phosphorus I can decrease the Boron content. Notice there was no elemental analysis of the MotorCraft Mercon V ATF.
 
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Thank you, that is what I meant. Still curious about the significance or lack thereof of using the licensed formulation vs not. As I understand it, Valvolines current "recommended for Merc V" is not. Trying to establish whether this is important or not, but I presume the specs exist for a reason, and have to wonder why Valvoline would deviate from them in such a fashion as to be denied licensure. More specifically, how this relates to my transmission! ...‚ I understand it probably amounts to splitting hairs, but I am curious for the opinions of those possibly in the industry or who are better educated than I on the chemical composition of these lubricants and the net effect to the end use. Thanks everyone! Merry Christmas!
 
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Originally Posted by Beatlebob32
Thank you, that is what I meant. Still curious about the significance or lack thereof of using the licensed formulation vs not. As I understand it, Valvolines current "recommended for Merc V" is not. Trying to establish whether this is important or not, but I presume the specs exist for a reason, and have to wonder why Valvoline would deviate from them in such a fashion as to be denied licensure. More specifically, how this relates to my transmission! ...‚ I understand it probably amounts to splitting hairs, but I am curious for the opinions of those possibly in the industry or who are better educated than I on the chemical composition of these lubricants and the net effect to the end use. Thanks everyone! Merry Christmas!
How did you come to the conclusion Valvoline was denied a MERCON license? It is more likely Valvoline did not seek to pay for a license.
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted by Beatlebob32
...Trying to establish whether this is important or not, but I presume the specs exist for a reason, and have to wonder why Valvoline would deviate from them in such a fashion as to be denied licensure...
You have made a number of statements/assumptions here that have no merit and apparently no facts to substantiate those statements. 1) Valvoline deviated from their original Mercon V formula. How do you know that? Did you have a $1000.00 detailed chemical analysis done and if so where is your documented proof? 2) Valvoline was denied further licensure. And you know this how? As I stated before, once Valvoline had their Mercon V qualified formula during licensure they did not just throw their Mercon V formulation away when they decided not to seek further licensure. Valvoline is no different than any other company when it comes to sales verses the decision to drop licensure when sales of a particular product no longer warrants paying that license fee. Innuendos and unsupported statements are how internet rumors get started. BITOG is here to educate, not to promote rumors.
 
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[/quote]
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Beatlebob32
...Trying to establish whether this is important or not, but I presume the specs exist for a reason, and have to wonder why Valvoline would deviate from them in such a fashion as to be denied licensure...
You have made a number of statements/assumptions here that have no merit and apparently no facts to substantiate those statements. 1) Valvoline deviated from their original Mercon V formula. How do you know that? Did you have a $1000.00 detailed chemical analysis done and if so where is your documented proof? 2) Valvoline was denied further licensure. And you know this how? As I stated before, once Valvoline had their Mercon V qualified formula during licensure they did not just throw their Mercon V formulation away when they decided not to seek further licensure. Valvoline is no different than any other company when it comes to sales verses the decision to drop licensure when sales of a particular product no longer warrants paying that license fee. Innuendos and unsupported statements are how internet rumors get started. BITOG is here to educate, not to promote rumors.
Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Beatlebob32
...Trying to establish whether this is important or not, but I presume the specs exist for a reason, and have to wonder why Valvoline would deviate from them in such a fashion as to be denied licensure...
You have made a number of statements/assumptions here that have no merit and apparently no facts to substantiate those statements. 1) Valvoline deviated from their original Mercon V formula. How do you know that? Did you have a $1000.00 detailed chemical analysis done and if so where is your documented proof? 2) Valvoline was denied further licensure. And you know this how? As I stated before, once Valvoline had their Mercon V qualified formula during licensure they did not just throw their Mercon V formulation away when they decided not to seek further licensure. Valvoline is no different than any other company when it comes to sales verses the decision to drop licensure when sales of a particular product no longer warrants paying that license fee. Innuendos and unsupported statements are how internet rumors get started. BITOG is here to educate, not to promote rumors.
I don't know anything, which is in fact why I am here, seeking education. Thank you for the refutation.
 
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