Confused by VW's recommendation for 1.8t

[VeeDubb]

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I think there is a minor cause for concern that VW are recommending a 5WXX oil, and your running a 10WXX oil, and they also mostly recommend a XW40 oil, and your running a XW30 oil, so basically your running an oil that is both to thick, and to thin.
I'm not so sure "any" 10W30 will protect an engine as well, when the engine is designed to run a 5W40 oil?

[/QB]

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I think the 0/5-40 "recommendation" is just that - a recommendation. I doubt the engine was designed to run a 5w-40 oil per se. 5w-40 is basically an idiot proof recommendation that works whether you live in Tucson Arizona, or near the north pole. It reduces the avg consumers' margin for error when choosing an oil.

A 0w30 or 5w30 that exceeds ACEA A3 and has an HTHS greater than 3.5 will protect as well as most 5w-40s. In fact, I would prefer a 5w30 A3 oil over a 5w-40 because there are less VI improvers.

 

[Bishop]

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I doubt the engine was designed to run a 5w-40 oil per se.

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Well, probably not, but usage of certain grades of oil has always been a way to overcome known issues with certain engines, I know BMW, and Porsche to a lesser degree (and even a few motorcycle makers), have been doing that for years.

So in other words, if VW are now saying a 5W40 is what you should run, who are we to know differently, and why?

I'm not usually one to second guess the guys who designed and built the engine in the first place, and although you may be right, and 5W40 is simply an idiot proof choice, what if it's not?

If I had a turbo 1.8 VW, I'd run a 5W40 oil, which was my original statement, I choose to believe they had a valid reason for recommending it in the first place.
Is it wrong to think that?

 

[TexasTDI]

When I had my Passat 1.8T I used Valvoline conventional 10w30 oil because that's what the VW dealership used. Changed every 5000 miles per VW recommendations. Bought the car with 45k miles. At 60k miles turbo goes out. Oil related? Who knows. Luckily the warranty covered everything. I will add that I live in HOT Texas. 95F summer average. Maybe I should have used a "40 weight" oil instead of a "30 weight" oil. But again, I was just doing what VW recommended.

VW is now going with thinner oils. First the TDI goes from 15w40 conventional to 5w-40 synthetic. Now every VW is going to 5w-40 synthetic. Especially since the new TDI PD engine MUST use a synthetic 5w-40 oil or the warranty WILL be voided. So now all VW dealerships will only be carrying synthetic 5w-40 oils that meet VW 505.01 specs and using it in all VW cars.

It's easier for dealerships to carry just one type of oil. And it's better for the engine in the long run. Synthetics protect better to begin with. And by using a 5w-XX oil (or 0wXX oil), the oil flows to vital engine parts quicker than a 10w-XX oil.

 

[VeeDubb]

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If I had a turbo 1.8 VW, I'd run a 5W40 oil, which was my original statement, I choose to believe they had a valid reason for recommending it in the first place.
Is it wrong to think that? [/QB]

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You should also be aware that the same EXACT engine is in Audi A4's and their manual recommends 0w30 and 10k OCIs. Quite a drastic difference in recommendations for the same engine. That tells me nothing is gospel.

But there are people cruising the clubb5 and vwvortex boards touting 5w-40 as if it was mandated by God and any deviation from it means lightening will strike us. They will even promote the 5w-40 thing over more important criterion such as ACEA A3 and VW 502 or 503.01. There are too many half truths and old wives tales being promoted on those boards and I'd hate to see them repeated here.

For most consumers, it's fine to follow the owner's manual. But keep in mind that recommendations are made not only for your benefit but to minimize costs for the manufacturer over the course of the warranty period. At the end of the day, most consumers also don't keep their cars for more than a couple of years anyways so following the owner's manual might be the best policy for the avg. consumer.

But I would personally rather get the protection of an ACEA A3 oil without all the VI improvers in it. So give me an A3 rated 0w30 or 5w30 over a 5w-40. This *might* result in less crud in my engine over the long run from VI improver break down.

Am I being overly anal about this? Probably. My guess is that using Valvoline Synpower 5w-40 will be just fine for 99.9% of VW owners. But then again, most people cruising bobistheoilguy are probably looking for some nuisance that goes beyond just what avg. Joe needs. If nothing else, it provides a psychological peace of mind. I mean is it really gonna make a real difference whether we use Lubro-Moly or Pentosin over Synpower or M1? Yet we all spend a lot of time worrying about it.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Parrothead, why don't you quote where the letter states (suddenly) that '97-'04 cars REQUIRE VW 502 oil to maintain warranty? Since you have already wasted this much of my time, I guess it's my job now to quote from the letter, exactly.

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Audi strongly reccomends you maintain your vehicle as described in the enclosed insert

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If your'e not too lazy to enquire at the dealer, they will tell you VW 502 oil is not required to maintain warranty. FYI- the mfg cannot require special parts for the warranty period, unless it is supplied for free. (unless you know otherwise) Moss-Magnusen Act dictates this. So, since you are such a great reader and have access to all the brain-power at this site, explain to older 1.8t owners how they must use VW 502 oil now. All they need to do is follow their owner's manual for recommended oil (SJ-SL) and intervals.

Bishop- Much of what you are stating comes from "old wives' tales" and group-think theories. There is little or no difference between 30/40 weight oils that are on the borderline of 12cSt. If you think heavier oil is better, why not use 50 weight or even Kendall Nitro 70? Do you think that will flow to the turbo at start-up? How about the narrow oiling lines to the k03 turbos on the 2.7tt? How about muy buddy who has timing chain noise on heavy RedLine 15w-50, no noise on the thinner (30/40) 0w-40 M1. http://www.audiworld.com/forum/a4gen2 Heavier otc oils DO shear faster than other brands, at least their viscosity improvers do. Those VIs shear directly into sludge and 10w-40 has the most of them. So, is Quaker State 10w-40 a better choice than German Syntec 0w-30? All that BS about too thick and too thin??? Do you even know how the W-rating scheme was devised? Any familiarity with 20 weight oils? They work well. Have you read any used oil analysis with light 30 weight oils in 1.8t? They do just fine on it with good start-up protecton and excellent wear. Too thick an oil can cause excess wear too. Basicly FORGET everything you thought you knew about oil and spend time reading searched old posts, rather than posting brainless ramblings like parrothead.

 

[dB]

Now if someone would like to go into the change of recommended oil on Audi 2.7T engines from 5W40 or 5w30 to 0w30 from model year 2000 to 2001 (I think), then we'll have some real fun.

 

[Audi Junkie]

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change of recommended oil on Audi 2.7T engines from 5W40 or 5w30 to 0w30

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This is a case where more specific oil visc was required. As I stated, the heavier oils did not flow out well and starved the turbos. The k-03 on 1.8ts have larger lines. The lines were enlarged later on the 2.7tt in 2001. 0w30 oils also became more widely available after that time frame. No sense in reccomending a viscosity that cannot be purchased. When in doubt, Mobil 1 0w-40 is the answer.

 

[parrothead]

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Parrothead, why don't you quote where the letter states (suddenly) that '97-'04 cars REQUIRE VW 502 oil to maintain warranty?

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I'm not exactly sure what your problem is. Are you trying to be an arrogant jerk, or does it come easily for you? You are the kind of person that gives forums like this a black eye. Please pay attention closely now. This is taken from the NEW oil recommendations I received from VW.

"Whether you use synthetic or petroleum based engine oil, the oil that you use should conform to to Volkswagen's oil quality standard VW 502.00 to help keep your vehicles 1.8T engine running smoothly and help prevent the formulation of harmful deposits, sometimes called "sludge," that over time can lead to expensive repairs."

"At the time this insert was printed, engine oils available in the U.S. and Canada that meet the exacting specifications of Volkswagen oil standard 502.00 are synthetic engine oils. This does not mean however that every synthetic engine oil will meet Volkswagen oil standard 502.00. So always be sure that you use an approved oil."

"To help prevent the formulation of harmful deposits use only oil with the following specifications printed on the oil container."

"VW 502.00"

"Oil container labels may carry the specification singly or in combination with other designations and oil quality standards."

"Viscosity"
"Engine oils are graded according to their viscosity. The proper viscosity grade oil for your engine depends on climactic or seasonal conditions where you drive. You can use oil with a viscosity grade of SAE 5W40 across all temperature ranges for normal driving conditions. However, if engine oil viscosity grade SAE 5W40 is not available, you can also use viscosity grade SAE 5W30 or SAE 0W40 as long as it meets VW oil quality standard VW 502.00 specifications."

 

[Patman]

Why can't people just get along on here lately? Let's not turn every good thread into a p.issing match please.

 

[Audi Junkie]

"Should" and "must" have two different meanings, just like "reccomended" and "required", even a child knows that.

 

[VeeDubb]

Guys, let's not get this thead locked because I can see Patman's finger on the button right now

Like Audie Junkie said, if in doubt get the Mobil 1 0w-40 and you can't go wrong. Everything else is just nitpicking because.....well, we're oil fanatics.

 

[Jelly]

Can't you get Valvoline SynPower in 5w30 and 5w-40 in the five quart jugs at Wal-Mart?

 

[parrothead]

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"reccomended" and "required"

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Well, as a child I learned how to spell recommended

 

[Bio-T]

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Originally posted by parrothead:

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"reccomended" and "required"

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Well, as a child I learned how to spell recommended

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This is the kind of stuff that grates on me. Another thread for the history books. Next time some posters will join the history list. I am fed up with the bickering and innuendos.