Concours 14 has crazy long oil change intervals ?

[02SE]

4-5 quarts is fairly typical for a I-4 shared-sump Motorcycle engine of that size. The Concours is 690 lbs wet. The weight of the odd quart of oil, is insignificant.

 

[David_g]

Originally Posted By: FastGame

What do the engineers focus on that 7,5000 miles oil change interval are safe ? The way things are today I would think they error on the conservative side even @7,500 mi.

You're assuming the 7500 mile recommendation is an engineering decision. I think this one is a company policy decision, and I think environmental concerns more than engineering concerns are behind long OCI recommendations. On the forums and in the classifieds we do see lots of street bikes with engine or transmission failures. Certainly some are oil related. And we certainly read tales of excessive gearbox wear. I realize not all oils are prone to shear. The only one that comes to mind for me is Motul 300V. Are there others?

 

[Robenstein]

My bike is only twin cylinder 865cc and it takes 4 quarts. You have to remember you are lubricating more than an engine. You have a transmission and primary to lubricate also. As for the too thin argument...a couple people riding Triumph twins on the RAT forum have had issues with their low oil pressure lights flickering on at very hot idle when they used 5w40 Rotella and tried to get a longer OCI out of it. Even though the manual states you can use a 40 weight, it recommends a 50 weight. Personally I always run the thickest I can according to the manual, knowing it will come down a grade after a bit.

 

[Mackelroy]

Lets say the manufacture says 10,000 mile OCi's. What that means is if you read the small print, it will last forever with no wear. Seems like that is what most assume as the op of this post, cause Ive seen it before. But the truth is, those intervals will give you a useable motor life. They dont intend or want it to last forever.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy

They dont intend or want it to last forever.

Bingo.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy

They dont intend or want it to last forever.

They engineer it to last forever even though the owner will grow tired of it and sell it for something new...

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein

Personally I always run the thickest I can according to the manual, knowing it will come down a grade after a bit.

Personally I run the freest flowing option according to the manual knowing from the Blackstone Analysis there is no increase in wear as it shears down...

 

[rossn2]

Quote:

5w40 Rotella and tried to get a longer OCI out of it. Even though the manual states you can use a 40 weight, it recommends a 50 weight.

A 5w-40 oil is not necessarily a 40 weight oil. It could be 5 weight that performs as a 40 weight at operating temperature. This is different than using a single weight oil..

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Originally Posted By: Robenstein

Personally I always run the thickest I can according to the manual, knowing it will come down a grade after a bit.

Personally I run the freest flowing option according to the manual knowing from the Blackstone Analysis there is no increase in wear as it shears down... So an automotive oil is what the mfgr actually recommends for your bike, interesting.,,

 

[rossn2]

And why run the 5w-40 (Rotella T6) instead of the 15w-40 Conventional Rotella??

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: rossn2

Quote:

5w40 Rotella and tried to get a longer OCI out of it. Even though the manual states you can use a 40 weight, it recommends a 50 weight.

A 5w-40 oil is not necessarily a 40 weight oil. It could be 5 weight that performs as a 40 weight at operating temperature. This is different than using a single weight oil..

And that was what I meant. Like I said the light came on when at normal operating temperature and at idle. Not when cold. Even a 5 weight when cold it thicker than a 40 weight when hot. Likely it had sheared down to a 30 weight and it began to lose pressure and tickle the oil pressure sender. I use 10w50 now so I get free flowing on start up and the protective oil cushion I need for my air cooled Triumph when hot on Iowa summer days.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna

So an automotive oil is what the mfgr actually recommends for your bike, interesting.,,

Honda only recommends API ratings which sets minimum for performance standards for lubricants... there is nothing in those early API SE SG SH ratings that are motorcycle specific... SE SG SH are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old they do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications. so Mr.RC45's Mobil 1 0w30 is SM rated which according to the manual is an API oil that "meets and exceeds" those old obsolete API standards... is your oil up to date??? The following table shows the API specifications behind the letters... SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge. SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability. SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein

And that was what I meant. Like I said the light came on when at normal operating temperature and at idle.

Do you know at what PSI does the light come on???

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: rossn2

A 5w-40 oil is not necessarily a 40 weight oil. It could be 5 weight that performs as a 40 weight at operating temperature. This is different than using a single weight oil..

Technical speaking the first number (the "5" in 5w40) is only a relative number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an engine to "turn over" at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity reference. In other words, a 5w40 is NOT a 5 weight oil in cold temperatures and a 40 weight oil in warm temperatures... rather a 5W40 Rotella actual viscosity is 76 cTs at 104F (40C) and 13.8 cTs at 212F (100C) that means the oil was heated to 100 degrees C and it flowed within a certain kinematic viscosity which is then classified with in a certain SAE grade like the "40" in 5w40). oils are rated on flow not thick or thin...

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna

So an automotive oil is what the mfgr actually recommends for your bike, interesting.,,

Honda only recommends API ratings which sets minimum for performance standards for lubricants... there is nothing in those early API SE SG SH ratings that are motorcycle specific... SE SG SH are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old they do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications. so Mr.RC45's Mobil 1 0w30 is SM rated which according to the manual is an API oil that "meets and exceeds" those old obsolete API standards... is your oil up to date??? The following table shows the API specifications behind the letters... SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge. SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability. SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.

So if you were to use a "motorcycle specific" oil in a new bike, and a motor problem happened ,they can deny the claim.,,

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Originally Posted By: Robenstein

And that was what I meant. Like I said the light came on when at normal operating temperature and at idle.

Do you know at what PSI does the light come on???

Nope but if it is coming on...that is bad news no matter what machine you are riding or driving. They set it to come on for a reason.

 

[saaz]

Like Rick_A I have been using 10,000km to 16,000km oil and filter change intervals on my ST1100, depending on what rides I have on. The shorter more Honda like interval is for mineral oils/easy to remember, longer interval is for full synthetic oil (10W-40 or 15W-50) that I used the last few oil changes. Honda interval is 12,500kms. I haven't done UOAs but gear change. Bike has 215,000kms on it. New Triumph Trophy has 16,000kms oil and filter intervals, but specifies at least 10w-40 semi synthetic or full synthetic oil. I have used that interval, gear chnages seem unaffected by distance, oil does come out dark but it is doing the job. Bike has 50,000kms on it since last November. These bikes are probably easier on oil than others, so not necessarily a general guide. For instance the Trophy has an internal oil heat exchanger that uses the engine coolant, so it is like having an external oil cooler. The Trophy has ample cooling capacity, rarely getting anywhere near the fan coming on except in stop go traffic.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna

So if you were to use a "motorcycle specific" oil in a new bike, and a motor problem happened ,they can deny the claim.,,

Honda has never denied a claim if the owner uses "motorcycle specific" oil because they sell MC specific oil... however they will deny claims if the owner forgets to fill with oil after draining...

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein

Nope but if it is coming on...that is bad news no matter what machine you are riding or driving. They set it to come on for a reason.

To know if it bad news or not an owner needs to know the PSI the "idiot light" illuminates... if it lights at 10 PSI that's a warning but if it comes on at 0 PSI that's too late...

 

[Robenstein]

I have heard it is around 3 to 5 psi range. And these engines are not a high volume/low pressure system.