Co-worker's car 3 quarts low

lukey · Oct 29, 2004

This thread reminds me of the time also when I worked full time at my dad's gas station in the early 70's. A traveling salesman came in one time and wanted his oil changed. It had a ridiculously large number of miles on the oil......something like 20 or 30 k. Hey when you get that high on oil miles why change it at all? Well I put the car on the lift, pulled the drain plug and NOTHING came out. I could see a black mass inside but was totally puzzled about what to do next. I finally used a stick to shove inside the pan through the drain hole and whatever goo stuck to the stick......was pulled out and scraped off. I did this many times and pulled out a sizable mass
of jelly like stuff and decided to stop there.
Opening the fill cap on top revealed much of the same rubbery stuff I had pried out of the pan.
I filled it with fresh oil and he was on his way,
never to return.
Wonder how far he made it?

Lukey

Palut · Oct 29, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by ems1:
It's amusing how some of the people posting messages here stereotype Saturn and Hyundai owners. I own a '02 Hyundai amd a '03 Saturn and have an income about 3 times the national average and am meticulous about the maintenance and oil changes of my vehicles. So much for the stereotype of ignorant poor Hyundai and Saturn owners!
After owning dozens of new cars, I realized that they are an EXPENSE not an investment. Maybe I'm not that smart since it took 20 year to figure this out. I don't think there are any cars on the market today that won't go 200,000 with proper maintenance. After 200,000 the trade in value is irrelevant. Your cost per mile is going to be less for the cheaper car.
Anyway, the newer Saturns with the Ecotec engines don't appear to be oil burners like the original 4 cylinder engines. My 2.2 Ecotec went 6000 miles on M1 and was down less than 1/2 quart.

A stereotype does not mean that ALL people in that category are that way. It means that it seems like most people in said category that way. I know that there are responsible owners of Hyundais and Kias, and owners of those cars who are good drivers. It just seems that most of the people who own those type of cars can't maintain them, and can't drive.

T-Keith · Oct 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Spitty:
Funny, I get the Idea that Saturns attract, and their marketing is aimed at, people who are not at all interested in cars.

The irony is, there cars tend to be Oil burners.
As someone who has owned and used Toyotas and Hondas for the last 20 years, I can well understand some un-informed person trading in their old Accord for a Saturn, and not even considering that they would have to check the oil level once in a while.
Come to think of it Why can't GM make a non Oil Burning engines?

I agree with the first part of your post. But the last comment is pure ignorance. I've owned plenty of GM cars with high mileage, and never had one that used a noticable amount of oil. My 3800 is spot on when I drain it.

-T

JohnnyO · Oct 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by msparks:
Isn't this a case not to purchase any used vehicle?

Nah, that's what Auto-RX is for.

Last summer my neighbor was putting brakes on an old Dodge minivan for a lady from his church. I suggested we check the oil, sure 'nuff there's nothing on the dipstick, zero-zip-nada. I dumped in a soup of what I had laying around, some M1, some Max-Life, and some Havoline. Probably the best that engine has had in a while.

quote:

Originally posted by T-Keith:
I've owned plenty of GM cars with high mileage, and never had one that used a noticable amount of oil.

My mom's '99 Caddy N* has around 40k on it and burns a quart every 1000 or so.

On the ARX rinse now, we'll see if that helps. There's good and bad from every car company. Fords are good for losing valve seals.

brianl703 · Oct 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyO:
Fords are good for losing valve seals.

Huh?

Besides the problems with the old 4.6L engine, I'm not aware of any common valve seal problems with Fords.

In fact, the only Ford I know of that has valve seal problems is a 1993 Ford Escort with 120,000 miles on it and it was purchased used with who-knows-what kind of maintenance(it was showing slight signs of valve seal problems when it was purchased at 110,000 miles). I have no doubt that Auto-RX would fix the problem (it's my brother's spare car, so I don't know if he'll ever decide to use Auto-RX in it).

Neither his 1995 Ford Contour V6 with 145,000 miles nor my 1988 Ford Mustang 5.0 with 160,000 miles are showing any signs of valve seal problems.

kenw · Oct 30, 2004

For me it's not between used and new, the choice is WHAT used car to buy.....any decent financial advisor will tell you to buy a slightly used car and drive it until the wheels fall off. Cars are a lousy investment, so the best thing is to minimize the loss.

My last cars I bought were:

>a 1 year old 02 Toyota Highlander with 5k miles on it. It now has 34k miles.

>a 1 year old 97 Toyota Camry v6 with 15k miles on it. It now has 158k miles.

When I bought the Camry, I WANTED a new 98 Buick Regal GS (i still like that car).

However, the 1 year old 15k mile 97 camry was tighter, quieter and had better fit and finish than the NEW Regal. and $10k less. Breaks my heart, I really liked that SC Regal, blue w/blue leather....but I needed a car that would hold up better.

I looked at 4 Regal GS at 3 different dealers. on every single one the cup holders were defective. Makes you wonder about the durability of the engine....

btw, i bought an extended 100k warranty on the camry, never used it. Not once.

but i still look longingly at those GS Regals...

JohnnyO · Oct 30, 2004

Between me and my dad we've had several 302 and 5.0 Fords that the valve seals went bad and they burned oil (a lot). I also had an '85 2.3L Mustang that needed seals at 60,000 miles. Until I came here and started running Mobil 1 at a 5k OCI in everything, I was a religious every 3k oil changer. Okay, okay, so it was Valvoline, I'm not perfect....

brianl703 · Oct 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyO:
Between me and my dad we've had several 302 and 5.0 Fords that the valve seals went bad and they burned oil (a lot). I also had an '85 2.3L Mustang that needed seals at 60,000 miles.

I note the make and model of the vehicle that dispenses a cloud of blue smoke out of the tailpipe upon acceleration, and thus far the only Ford vehicles I've seen doing that are older 4.6L Grand Marquis/Crown Vics, a couple of older Escorts here and there, and that's about it. I don't think I've ever seen a Mustang or a Ford truck of any type doing it.

You want to talk valve seal problems, how about the Dodge Caravan? I can't go two weeks without seeing one of those blowing blue smoke. I think those are the ones with the Mitsubishi engine.

JohnBrowning · Oct 30, 2004

Their is a reason that GM installed low oil level sensor's. Between their poor design and lousy OCI with cheap 5W30 oil it is needed.

Brief list of known GM oil burners:

All Saturn 4 cyl. prior to ecotec
All Gen III small blocks 4.8,5.3, LS1,LS6 etc....
6.2 and 6.5 T/Diesels
All NorthStars

crossbow · Oct 31, 2004

5 bucks says that the manual for the ford 500 says 5w-20...and the salesman just didn't know any better.

Spitty · Oct 31, 2004

[ I agree with the first part of your post. But the last comment is pure ignorance. I've owned plenty of GM cars with high mileage, and never had one that used a noticable amount of oil. My 3800 is spot on when I drain it.]

I'm not saying GM can't, and do, make non oil burning cars, just that they also make cars that DO have a tendency to burn oil.
Surely in this day and age if some manufacturers can make a reliable engine, requiring minimal matenence, 10 years later, a Big company like GM
could take advantage of that technology.

Vuarra · Oct 31, 2004

I had a good laugh yesterday. I went to a Ford Stealership to test a Ford Five Hundred (actually, one of the few Fords that I would consider driving; but I digress), and after I drove it back to the original parking spot (and the salesman had trouble pulling it out originally), I asked what kind of oil it took.

"5w30."

"Not 5W-20," I asked, "like in the majority of Fords and Hondas?"

"No, 5w30."

I then proceeded to educate him to the ways of GC in my Roadmaster and Regal. He heard me prattling on about the various long-life certifications, then finally interupted me to ask how I learned about oil.

"Do a Google search for BITOG."

Anyway, all the new car dealers should have a class like the one such as Saturn's, just so that their cars are less daunting for the unwashed masses. Even my Roadmaster, which belonged to the wife of an owner of a repair shop, had bad seals, and goop from conventional oil filling in the gaps. $2500 CAD later, the new engine gets GC, with no leaks.

Matt_S · Oct 31, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Spitty:
I'm not saying GM can't, and do, make non oil burning cars, just that they also make cars that DO have a tendency to burn oil.
Surely in this day and age if some manufacturers can make a reliable engine, requiring minimal matenence, 10 years later, a Big company like GM
could take advantage of that technology.

As long as we're talking about companies making products that are less than stellar:

Honda recently had a recall for the automatic transmission in the Odyssey due to a design problem with the lubrication system, IIRC, which caused transmission failures. Can't they make a decent transmission?

Mitsubishi 3.0L V6 engines, used in many Chrysler products over the years, are INFAMOUS for valve seal leaks. Can't they make an engine that doesn't burn oil?

Toyota had a well publicized problem with their 3.0L V6 engine sludging up the oil, causing oil starvation to the top end of the motor. Can't they make a decent engine?

My point is that every company has it's hits and misses. GM is the world's largest auto maker with the largest product line up. They're going to have a larger number of misses, in absolute terms, than their competitors and more exposure. If you look at the JD Power long term quality ratings, though, GM is right up there with the Japanese and better than most of the European and Korean manufacturers. Let's not let a few misses sour the entire company's image.

Another related point is that GM recently reigned in Saturn engineering. They're not as autonomous as they used to be, so you should be seeing Saturn products from this point forward that are at least on-par with the rest of GM in terms of quality. Saturn used to have a unique motor, but not any more.

T-Keith · Oct 31, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by kenw:

I looked at 4 Regal GS at 3 different dealers. on every single one the cup holders were defective. Makes you wonder about the durability of the engine....

Why? What does the druablity of a cupholder say about anything? Does the same guy who designs a cupholder design an engine? Hardly. Was the cupholder made or designed in the same place? Not likely.

If you'd have gotten that regal you would have had a great car with a practially indestrucible engine that will work well with almost any oil. Can't even say that for the Toyota.

Co-worker's car 3 quarts low

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