Clutch Hassle

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TallPaul

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I started out in the Ranger this am (original clutch and associated compnents at 67000 miles), pulled out the driveway and when I went to shift to 2nd the pedal would not come up very far from the floor and it was engaged. Pushed it the three houses back home and inspected. The clutch pedal seemed fine, so I started it up and drove to work. Everything worked fine.

Called shop and they said it is probably low on fluid and likely the cold (27F this am) pushed it over the edge, then it warmed enough to work again. They suggested check the fluid and add as necessary, then keep eye on it as may have leak.

That all makes sense, and I suspect the leak is small, but should schedule to get it to the shop for repair (bleed at a minimum). But if it is low that pretty much signifies a leak right?

Now, I know I am supposed to buy a new can of brake fluid for the clutch, but hate to throw out the half can in the garage. It has been sitting half empty for a couple years and I am leary of using it in case it has taken on water. Cap has been tightly sealed though. Should I use the 2-year-old can of brake fluid or buy a fresh can?
 
go fresh.
the old absorbs water once opened. (even unopened they will a tiny bit through the plastic)
 
Many times during a cold snap, the level will drop slightly and/or you'll get slight crystallization of the water absorbed into the DOT3 or 4 brake fluid, which leads to sluggish clutch usage. You could also have a slave cylinder leak.

I would buy two liters of fresh DOT4 and bleed the entire system, all four corners and the clutch slave cylinder. Watch the fluid level for a week or so and if it hasn't changed, call it good.

You'll probably do no harm by using what's in the garage just for a top-up. But when was the fluid changed last?
 
For just the clutch buy the smallest bottle of new fluid you can find, it's probably 8 ounces tops. But I'd buy fresh. It's not a hard job if you have a mityvac.
 
I still have to establish if it is low. I was running late for a meeting and so called the shop on the run. Fluid was never changed (I bought used, but she gave me all repair info). No harm to fill up, watch for a while and if it does not go down. Thanks
 
As long as the top was tightly on the bottle I'd use it... Most covers on clutch master cylinders don't fit all that snug, you can bet there is far more moisture absorption in that fluid than the container...

I'd inspect master and slave cylinders closely for leakage...
 
Good point TFB1! Chances are there will need to be follow up whether or not I need to add fluid and that will include complete flush and replacement of the fluid. So if the can has a little moisture it should not matter.

At 66000 miles I hope this is a simple problem, at worst a master cyl. Would hate to drop the transmission for a slave, but if so may as well replace the clutch.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Use the old stuff up. No water has entered the bottle.
The clutch reservoir and line are plastic, so is the bottle. the only difference is the rubber piece in the reservoir that would limit or exclude air, whereas the bottle has air in it. But how much moisture could condense out of that, especially since it was capped in early January when the humidity in the air is quite low.
 
Maybe I missed something, but you seem to be saying you think the clutch fluid reservoir is low, though you haven't checked it yet? Is it not easily visible after popping the hood? Seems like step #1 would be to fill the reservoir, then simply bleed the clutxh when you have more time.
 
Right, I didn't have a chance to check it as I was late for a meeting. After work I checked it and it was right at the line. Drove it home and it was fine (afternnon was mid 40F). But this am, same problem (24F). So I checked it right away this am and it was down about 1/4-inch. I topped it to the line, closed the reservoir, then pumped the pedal about 6 to 8 times and rechecked. This time it was just a tad low, less than 1/8 inch. Topped it again to the line, closed the lid and pumped the pedal 20 times. Checked it again and it was fine. So I drove it about 10 miles and let it sit for 3 hours, checked it again and it's fine. Will check again after work with another 15 miles.

Two theories:

1) A small leak that occurs over long time sitting in cold weather--though it was not low yesterday (maybe expansion with warmth 40s vs 20s?).

2) Master cylinder is worn and not giving full stroke, and the cold weather is enought to put it over the line.

Either way, it will need service before long. Do shops have a way to test for leakage? I would simply have it bled, but hate to do that then have to bring it back for a cylinder. I'll see if it goes low again, then it most definitely needs a cylinder or two.
 
Also, unbolt the master cylinder and look behind it for any fluid.

At that kind of mileage, I would replace both master and slave cylinders.
 
I don't mess around with this stuff. Beyond oil changes I am either (and mostly) imcompetent and/or don't have time. It's going to the shop on Monday am. I'll post the final word next Tuesday. Thanks all. As usual if something is amiss with hydraulics it doesn't just go away, as much as we wish it would.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A master cylinder can be bad internally, and not leak externally.
Same for wheel cyls and slave cyls.


Wheel cyls and slave cyls will only leak externally. Fluid pressure is on one side of a piston, if it leaks it can only go out.
Master cylinders have fluid on both sides of the piston. If they leak it can go back into the reservior or possibly out around the push rod.
 
It was the slave. They have the new slave installed and the transmission is back in, but they were closing and hadn't installed the shifter or road tested it yet. At 67,000 miles they said the clutch looked very good, so they did not recommend replacement. I think that will be it. No idea the cost yet, but R&R the transmission ususally is a few hours. He is pretty fair though and only charges actual time spend even if the book is more.

The strange thing was that I could drive it a few house or, as this am, 1/2 mile before the pedal would drop. Then after topping the fluid and waiting a little bit, it drove fine the rest of the day. I should not complain as that way I stayed off the tow truck.
 
My clutch master cylinder has s small leak, visible fluid coming down onto the clutch pedal but hard to see. Feel by hand and external examination already verify my app needs it replaced. Getting it done next week myself.

Yes, if the pedal drops and doesn't feel like their master, slave, or perhaps air entry is really the 3 problem areas. My slave is all good, had the clutch replaced with transmission removed 2 months ago. All is good now 3,000 miles later we're just needing that master cylinder at the pedal replaced now. The pedal doesn't want to return fully(it IS adjusted really low to minimize time for engagement on the pressure plate itself, in the hopes of the replacement lasting longer), but it just doesn't feel stout or as good as it could, the pedal itself. That + leak = new pedal going in next week b4 failure.

Not sure if the use of Honda brake fluid is required in this case, since the replacement is an EXEDY. I'm planning on just using Valvoline DOT 3/4 after replacing and bleeding.
 
Part: $85
Labor: $315
You would think they would have designed the slave cylinder to at least last as long as the clutch.
 
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