Joseph,
Just as a matter of interest, which CI-4 Plus product are you using?
What I really do not like about the CJ-4 thing is the phosphorus content of max 1200 ppm, A slight reduction compared to the 1200 - 1300 ppm in CI-4+ oils.
Also, according to Chevron and Lubrizol, there is even a phosphorus limit for CI-4 oils of 1400 ppm, whereas Mobil says the typical level is 1200 – 1600 ppm. Is that true?
http://www.delobike.com/Chev CJ4 Q_A.pdf
http://www.lubrizol.com/CJ-4/faq.asp
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/Files/Delvc_PC-10_FAQs.pdf
As for sulfur: max 4000 ppm. Do we know how much sulfur there is in today's Delo, Delvac, Rotella etc.?
And sulfated Ash: max 1.0%. Ok, Castrol makes Hypuron S CI-4 with 1.1% ash and a TBN of 14.1, so it does not seem impossible to make an 1%Ash/TBN 12 oil. But, yes, I know the virgin oil TBN is not that important. ULSD will help a lot too.
Now the part that makes me angry: The Noack volatility is still allowed to be as high as 13%. It is like any synthetic CI-4 oil can do it better. Maybe some of the new additives required to meet the P, S and ash limit tend to be more volatile than the traditional ones, I do not know. The CJ-4 engine tests include a lot of piston deposit evaluation, but where are the rigorous real would oil consumption and DPF plugging tests? I do not know if I understand it right that the 500 hour long Cat C13 allows an oil consumption of 31 g/hr? That sounds to be much. Is this C13 modified to elevate the oil consumption for test purpose?
I remember Doug Hillary said that his 500 hp Detroit series 60’s average oil consumption is 1 litre every 6000 km with Delvac 1. If we say that 80 km (50 miles) are equivalent to 1 engine hour, he uses 1 litre (854 gram) pr. 75 hours => Less than 12 g/hr. Also, this is the average consumption for his long drain intervals of 60K miles or so.
PC-10 would have been a good opportunity for the engine manufacturers to recognize the advantages of synthetic oils (maybe group 3 also), even without chemical regulations. Not to approve oils because they do not meet those chemical limits looks a little like “cubical engineering” to me, I am sorry.
Would all CI-4+ oils fail the engine tests?
We all know, that engine tests (API and ILSAC) are getting stricter and chemical regulations will require more new additives in the future. The result is, that it is getting more and more difficult to make low-cost formulations to meet the current >minimum< requirements. But, what about the "premium" products that have been using some kind of "state-of-art" technology for years. Some of them may have exceeded most requirements for years. Now the chemical limits will force the manufacturers to change their proven chemistry. The new chemistry may perform less good in some disciplines. Thinking of today's HDEOs, I just find it interesting, that Cummins thinks there is a need to measure valve train wear in ISB engines these days. How long time has the sliding cam tappet B-series been in the marketplace, almost 20 years, right? Do we know about valve train wear issues with B or ISB engines, using Delo, Delvac, Rotella, Schaeffer's 7000, Pennzoil LL, Valvoline PB and other premium HDEOs? :shrug: Ok, we may see higher cam pressures in new eingines.
All in all, making a good engine oil is more than just making a mixture of different traditional and nontraditional additives at a radio that looks nice to people who like “older” oils. But what I want to say is that if there were no chemical limits for CJ-4, formulators would not push the phosphorus content below the 1200 ppm. I am glad that we have people like MolaKule to inform about changes in additive technology. He helps me understand that cutting down something is not so bad if it is substituted with something advanced.
If we look at “engine wear”, there may be a “different kinds of wear”. I mean wear caused by high loads/pressure and engine “typical” wear increased by combustion by-products and heat, corrosive wear, as well as wear depending on engine operation and duty cycle. If it was about load carrying ability only, we could probably use an EP gear oil in our engines. Finally, only long-term real world test will show how CJ-4 will perform. BTW, will CJ-4 oil meet Allison C4?
What I use to say is that we should not buy things because the industry wants us to. New is not allways better. DPF plugging concerns do not bother me yet. My parents mid-90’s CDC-Cummins engines have been lubricated with “normal” oils their entire life, currently with Delvac 1 CI-4 Plus. Also, why pay more to get the same, or maybe less?
I like the fact that Amsoil has not just reformulated their AME and HDD.
ED.
