I see Chrysler is putting this engine in their new cars. From what I've read, lots of horsepower and great fuel economy. What I don't understand is why Chrysler doesn't put this engine in the Jeep Liberty. The 3.7 V6 in it now is such a gas hog. The Pentastar seems like a much better option. What am I missing here?
Chrysler Pentastar V-6
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My guess (and I'm not an insider) is priorities. They're ramping up production of the Pentastar, and priority vehicles are getting it first. The Grand Cherokee is new, so its a top priority. The 3.5 is gone, so the 300/Charger/Challenger have to get it (and that's also where they get to show off the 8-speed automatic first). The 3.8 is gone, so the Wrangler has to get it. The 3.7, on the other hand, can be easily built as long as they're still building the 4.7 v8 that its based on, so vehicles that CAN use the 3.7 are probably the lowest priority for getting the Pentastar. I'm guessing they'll get it within a year or so. Honestly I'm not sure the Pentastar will fare as well off-road as lower-power but torquier engines like the old 3.8 and the 3.7. The 3.8 was the closest thing still in production to the old 4.0 straight six, and you just can't beat one of those offroad
FWIW, I had a Grand Cherokee renal with the Pentastar a couple of weeks ago and it is an AMAZING little engine. But its a bit on the peaky side and the first 4 ratios in the 5-speed are split a tad too far to take maximum advantage. It sorta falls on its face after a couple of the shifts and has to re-group. The 6-speed in the minivans actually keeps it on its power peak better.
FWIW, I had a Grand Cherokee renal with the Pentastar a couple of weeks ago and it is an AMAZING little engine. But its a bit on the peaky side and the first 4 ratios in the 5-speed are split a tad too far to take maximum advantage. It sorta falls on its face after a couple of the shifts and has to re-group. The 6-speed in the minivans actually keeps it on its power peak better.
They will likely phase the 3.7L engine out, and the new 3.6L engine in, with the next generation of the Liberty.
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
The 6-speed in the minivans actually keeps it on its power peak better.
My parents just bought a new Grand Caravan with the new 3.6 Pentastar engine. As much as they want to like their new vehicle (their 6th Dodge/Plymouth minivan), they have nothing good to say about the drive-by-wire throttle or the transmission that can't make up its mind as to what gear it wants to be in. They like the power, but they HATE the fact that the pedal has to be pushed halfway down before the computer gets off its butt and decides to tell the engine to go faster, and then it revs way up and bolts. There's no way to give it proportional input, like an on/off switch. They aren't happy at all with it and the Dodge dealer basically shrugged his shoulders and told them that's normal now.
The 6-speed in the minivans actually keeps it on its power peak better.
My parents just bought a new Grand Caravan with the new 3.6 Pentastar engine. As much as they want to like their new vehicle (their 6th Dodge/Plymouth minivan), they have nothing good to say about the drive-by-wire throttle or the transmission that can't make up its mind as to what gear it wants to be in. They like the power, but they HATE the fact that the pedal has to be pushed halfway down before the computer gets off its butt and decides to tell the engine to go faster, and then it revs way up and bolts. There's no way to give it proportional input, like an on/off switch. They aren't happy at all with it and the Dodge dealer basically shrugged his shoulders and told them that's normal now.
I have a 2011 T&C Touring with 5600 miles (bought it with 26 miles). It sounds like the "EconoMode" button pushed in on the central console. My T&C is very responsive, unless I put it in the econo mode. Then it needs a some coaching to start off the dead stop.
I can not imagine Chrysler and Dodge having different AT programming.
We hate having a car payment, but love the versatility and creature comforts of the T&C. Chrysler really did a good job on it. We looked at Dodge, but liked T&C styling better.
I can not imagine Chrysler and Dodge having different AT programming.
We hate having a car payment, but love the versatility and creature comforts of the T&C. Chrysler really did a good job on it. We looked at Dodge, but liked T&C styling better.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Isn't the Liberty being discontinued, and replaced by something else?
If they had any brains, they'd call it "Cherokee," keep it relatively inexpensive and simple without a lot of electronics in the 4x4 system, and keep at least one solid axle and serious offroad capability.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/18/chrysler-investing-1-7b-in-jeep-liberty-replacement/#continued
Isn't the Liberty being discontinued, and replaced by something else?
If they had any brains, they'd call it "Cherokee," keep it relatively inexpensive and simple without a lot of electronics in the 4x4 system, and keep at least one solid axle and serious offroad capability.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/18/chrysler-investing-1-7b-in-jeep-liberty-replacement/#continued
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
My guess (and I'm not an insider) is priorities. They're ramping up production of the Pentastar, and priority vehicles are getting it first. The Grand Cherokee is new, so its a top priority. The 3.5 is gone, so the 300/Charger/Challenger have to get it (and that's also where they get to show off the 8-speed automatic first). The 3.8 is gone, so the Wrangler has to get it. The 3.7, on the other hand, can be easily built as long as they're still building the 4.7 v8 that its based on, so vehicles that CAN use the 3.7 are probably the lowest priority for getting the Pentastar. I'm guessing they'll get it within a year or so....
If Ford F-150 3.7 V6 sales are good, I would imagine the Ram 1500 should be getting the 3.6 Pentastar in a short amount of time. The automotive media certainly thinks the Ford 3.7 works well in the F-150. That's either going to mean a lot of leftover 3.7s or that they will phase out the 3.7.
My guess (and I'm not an insider) is priorities. They're ramping up production of the Pentastar, and priority vehicles are getting it first. The Grand Cherokee is new, so its a top priority. The 3.5 is gone, so the 300/Charger/Challenger have to get it (and that's also where they get to show off the 8-speed automatic first). The 3.8 is gone, so the Wrangler has to get it. The 3.7, on the other hand, can be easily built as long as they're still building the 4.7 v8 that its based on, so vehicles that CAN use the 3.7 are probably the lowest priority for getting the Pentastar. I'm guessing they'll get it within a year or so....
If Ford F-150 3.7 V6 sales are good, I would imagine the Ram 1500 should be getting the 3.6 Pentastar in a short amount of time. The automotive media certainly thinks the Ford 3.7 works well in the F-150. That's either going to mean a lot of leftover 3.7s or that they will phase out the 3.7.
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
I have a 2011 T&C Touring with 5600 miles (bought it with 26 miles). It sounds like the "EconoMode" button pushed in on the central console. My T&C is very responsive, unless I put it in the econo mode. Then it needs a some coaching to start off the dead stop.
+1
I fiddled around with the "mode" button on the Pentastar Grand Caravan rental I had, and couldn't find any reason I'd ever want to leave it in "Economy" around town. It basically lugs like a sumanamitch, and then when it decides "oh, I guess he really wants to go" and takes off once the throttle is down pretty deep. It might be good for moderately dense traffic on the highway where you don't want it to shift too readily, but not for around town. Once out of "Economy" mode, I thought it was about the best throttle-by-wire and 6-speed I'd driven in quite a while. Even if it was a big ugly breadbox.
I have a 2011 T&C Touring with 5600 miles (bought it with 26 miles). It sounds like the "EconoMode" button pushed in on the central console. My T&C is very responsive, unless I put it in the econo mode. Then it needs a some coaching to start off the dead stop.
+1
I fiddled around with the "mode" button on the Pentastar Grand Caravan rental I had, and couldn't find any reason I'd ever want to leave it in "Economy" around town. It basically lugs like a sumanamitch, and then when it decides "oh, I guess he really wants to go" and takes off once the throttle is down pretty deep. It might be good for moderately dense traffic on the highway where you don't want it to shift too readily, but not for around town. Once out of "Economy" mode, I thought it was about the best throttle-by-wire and 6-speed I'd driven in quite a while. Even if it was a big ugly breadbox.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Isn't the Liberty being discontinued, and replaced by something else?
If they had any brains, they'd call it "Cherokee," keep it relatively inexpensive and simple without a lot of electronics in the 4x4 system, and keep at least one solid axle and serious offroad capability.
Isn't it called the "Cherokee" everywhere else in the world and still have the VM Motori diesel?
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Isn't the Liberty being discontinued, and replaced by something else?
If they had any brains, they'd call it "Cherokee," keep it relatively inexpensive and simple without a lot of electronics in the 4x4 system, and keep at least one solid axle and serious offroad capability.
Isn't it called the "Cherokee" everywhere else in the world and still have the VM Motori diesel?
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
If Ford F-150 3.7 V6 sales are good, I would imagine the Ram 1500 should be getting the 3.6 Pentastar in a short amount of time. The automotive media certainly thinks the Ford 3.7 works well in the F-150. That's either going to mean a lot of leftover 3.7s or that they will phase out the 3.7.
Not to stray TOO far from the subject, but I also had my first Ford 3.7 experience last week (in a Mustang rental, no less) and found it a very potent little engine. I may get struck by lightning for saying this, but I just might find it more fun on a daily basis than the V8 (OK not more than the Coyote 5.0). The power delivery is much more predictable and gradual with the 3.7, and its got a lot to deliver. It didn't have the brutal neck-snap of a 1985 5.0 Mustang, but once the rush of power comes on, it easily had more on tap than the 80s Fox. This latest generation of v6 engines, at least from Ford and Chrysler, is very promising!
If Ford F-150 3.7 V6 sales are good, I would imagine the Ram 1500 should be getting the 3.6 Pentastar in a short amount of time. The automotive media certainly thinks the Ford 3.7 works well in the F-150. That's either going to mean a lot of leftover 3.7s or that they will phase out the 3.7.
Not to stray TOO far from the subject, but I also had my first Ford 3.7 experience last week (in a Mustang rental, no less) and found it a very potent little engine. I may get struck by lightning for saying this, but I just might find it more fun on a daily basis than the V8 (OK not more than the Coyote 5.0). The power delivery is much more predictable and gradual with the 3.7, and its got a lot to deliver. It didn't have the brutal neck-snap of a 1985 5.0 Mustang, but once the rush of power comes on, it easily had more on tap than the 80s Fox. This latest generation of v6 engines, at least from Ford and Chrysler, is very promising!
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Isn't it called the "Cherokee" everywhere else in the world and still have the VM Motori diesel?
"Yes," and "I'm not sure, but I'm almost certain it does." Didn't the VM Motori get caught by a change in US emission laws not long after it went on sale here? It probably didn't sell enough to justify adding a DPF and catalyst for the US market.
Isn't it called the "Cherokee" everywhere else in the world and still have the VM Motori diesel?
"Yes," and "I'm not sure, but I'm almost certain it does." Didn't the VM Motori get caught by a change in US emission laws not long after it went on sale here? It probably didn't sell enough to justify adding a DPF and catalyst for the US market.
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
I have a 2011 T&C Touring with 5600 miles (bought it with 26 miles). It sounds like the "EconoMode" button pushed in on the central console. My T&C is very responsive, unless I put it in the econo mode. Then it needs a some coaching to start off the dead stop.
I fiddled around with the "mode" button on the Pentastar Grand Caravan rental I had, and couldn't find any reason I'd ever want to leave it in "Economy" around town. It basically lugs like a sumanamitch, and then when it decides "oh, I guess he really wants to go" and takes off once the throttle is down pretty deep. It might be good for moderately dense traffic on the highway where you don't want it to shift too readily, but not for around town. Once out of "Economy" mode, I thought it was about the best throttle-by-wire and 6-speed I'd driven in quite a while. Even if it was a big ugly breadbox.
Both my Mom and Dad said that the button does not seem to do much of anything. The car feels the same regardless of what position it's in. I'll have to take it for a drive and see what they are talking about.
Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
I have a 2011 T&C Touring with 5600 miles (bought it with 26 miles). It sounds like the "EconoMode" button pushed in on the central console. My T&C is very responsive, unless I put it in the econo mode. Then it needs a some coaching to start off the dead stop.
I fiddled around with the "mode" button on the Pentastar Grand Caravan rental I had, and couldn't find any reason I'd ever want to leave it in "Economy" around town. It basically lugs like a sumanamitch, and then when it decides "oh, I guess he really wants to go" and takes off once the throttle is down pretty deep. It might be good for moderately dense traffic on the highway where you don't want it to shift too readily, but not for around town. Once out of "Economy" mode, I thought it was about the best throttle-by-wire and 6-speed I'd driven in quite a while. Even if it was a big ugly breadbox.
Both my Mom and Dad said that the button does not seem to do much of anything. The car feels the same regardless of what position it's in. I'll have to take it for a drive and see what they are talking about.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
If Ford F-150 3.7 V6 sales are good, I would imagine the Ram 1500 should be getting the 3.6 Pentastar in a short amount of time. The automotive media certainly thinks the Ford 3.7 works well in the F-150. That's either going to mean a lot of leftover 3.7s or that they will phase out the 3.7.
Not to stray TOO far from the subject, but I also had my first Ford 3.7 experience last week (in a Mustang rental, no less) and found it a very potent little engine. I may get struck by lightning for saying this, but I just might find it more fun on a daily basis than the V8 (OK not more than the Coyote 5.0). The power delivery is much more predictable and gradual with the 3.7, and its got a lot to deliver. It didn't have the brutal neck-snap of a 1985 5.0 Mustang, but once the rush of power comes on, it easily had more on tap than the 80s Fox. This latest generation of v6 engines, at least from Ford and Chrysler, is very promising!
I had an '85 LX 5.0.
it was pretty far from neck snap brutal. But then again it was automatic and CFI.
Wish I could find a 3.7 with a manual to drive. All the ones I've seen have been automatics.
Now, if Chrysler would just pair a six-speed manual with the Pentastar in the Challenger I could stop all this Mustang and Camaro nonsense.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
If Ford F-150 3.7 V6 sales are good, I would imagine the Ram 1500 should be getting the 3.6 Pentastar in a short amount of time. The automotive media certainly thinks the Ford 3.7 works well in the F-150. That's either going to mean a lot of leftover 3.7s or that they will phase out the 3.7.
Not to stray TOO far from the subject, but I also had my first Ford 3.7 experience last week (in a Mustang rental, no less) and found it a very potent little engine. I may get struck by lightning for saying this, but I just might find it more fun on a daily basis than the V8 (OK not more than the Coyote 5.0). The power delivery is much more predictable and gradual with the 3.7, and its got a lot to deliver. It didn't have the brutal neck-snap of a 1985 5.0 Mustang, but once the rush of power comes on, it easily had more on tap than the 80s Fox. This latest generation of v6 engines, at least from Ford and Chrysler, is very promising!
I had an '85 LX 5.0.
Wish I could find a 3.7 with a manual to drive. All the ones I've seen have been automatics.
Now, if Chrysler would just pair a six-speed manual with the Pentastar in the Challenger I could stop all this Mustang and Camaro nonsense.
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Both my Mom and Dad said that the button does not seem to do much of anything. The car feels the same regardless of what position it's in. I'll have to take it for a drive and see what they are talking about.
You need to remember that the vehicle adaptive programs will automatically develop a pattern based on style of driving. This requires you to pull the correct fuse for a few minutes to reset them.
If you drive conservatively the trans will seek higher gears and lots of lockup no matter what buttons are pushed.
Both my Mom and Dad said that the button does not seem to do much of anything. The car feels the same regardless of what position it's in. I'll have to take it for a drive and see what they are talking about.
You need to remember that the vehicle adaptive programs will automatically develop a pattern based on style of driving. This requires you to pull the correct fuse for a few minutes to reset them.
If you drive conservatively the trans will seek higher gears and lots of lockup no matter what buttons are pushed.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
They will likely phase the 3.7L engine out, and the new 3.6L engine in, with the next generation of the Liberty.
I think they have a smaller version of the Pentastar in the works and most likely the Liberty will get that, along with a total redesign.
As far as the 3.6L Pentastar, it's a great engine, and the longer Chrysler stays away from DI the better IMO.
They will likely phase the 3.7L engine out, and the new 3.6L engine in, with the next generation of the Liberty.
I think they have a smaller version of the Pentastar in the works and most likely the Liberty will get that, along with a total redesign.
As far as the 3.6L Pentastar, it's a great engine, and the longer Chrysler stays away from DI the better IMO.
The 3.7L engine is a good motor, it's just a little to thirsty for todays standards, and the 4sp AT, doesn't help. It's whats in my Dodge Nitro ( brother of the Liberty)and it has performed well, easy to maintain and has been trouble free.
The 3.6L Pentastar is awesome from what I hear.
The 3.6L Pentastar is awesome from what I hear.
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