Cheap insurance

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
How many men and women have died in these armed conflicts over oil in the Middle East?

For oil.

Yep. Sure is cheap insurance. Keep sends nag your youth to die so oil can be "cheap" to the consumer.


I guess the big picture is too much to comprehend.

But yeah. Cheap insurance. Compare it to a coffee a day or whatever nonsense.

Spin it however you like.


Has much more to do than just the middle east, but that's another thread...


But back on topic, much is going to depend on the type of engine that it is going into as well. Some cars I would not feel good about oil going a longer time in them.....

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Rand
I change every 3000miles with syn.

of course that is following the owners manual for my 2015 forester severe service schedule.


No, it's not following any prescribed interval...

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: MrQuackers
I must not get political.


Then I vote for some dancing bunny videos...

 

[slowdime]

This thread wasn't even remotely political to begin with; a simple matter of whether frequent oil changes was worth it or not garnered a soapbox post.

 

[slowdime]

Oh and I second the dancing bunnies! Or maybe cat memes.

 

[bbhero]

True true.. Back to the topic at hand. . I believe everyone should have the right to do how they see fit with their car. Everyone's circumstances are different in regards to how they take care of their car. My car motor is really hard in oil, I have a 50\50 town vs. highway driving situation. So I change mine accordingly. Someone else who lives in Wyoming driving interstate 25 or 80 may well be able to go 15,000 miles. No real wrong answer unless one goes way over. Or maybe 3,000 miles.. Unless under warranty then gotta do what you gotta do

 

[slowdime]

Precisely
If a 3k mile oci let's you sleep better at night then that's worth it I suppose.
I'm a bit on the conservative side doing 5k oci's when my regular driving habits is 95% highway. Frequent changes gives me the opportunity to climb under the car and do a quicky look over to spot anything that may need replacement.

 

[OneEyeJack]

I gravity feed my used Red Line oil dumped from my daily drivers through toilet paper and use it in a tractor and a couple of other small engines at a hobby mine that a couple of friends and I work at on days off.

It works especially well in our air cooled Honda engined water pump. I know I've been advised that 0w30 synthetic should never be used in an air cooled engine but we did not tell the engine that we're using the wrong oil and it's been doing great for 10 years. It gets run for about 10-15 hours at a stretch, 2 to 3 times a week when one particular shaft starts collecting water and sometimes goes a month or more with out being needed. The OCI is 50 hours or about every week and a half to 2 weeks. This engine works very hard for its living.

 

[bbhero]

Funny you say that.. I go 5k.. But glad I have actually. I've read on the Nissan forum how hard the VQ35de motor is on oil.
I tell ya what that the motor in your cavalier is a good motor. My lady's Sunfire had the same motor with Zero issues til 214,000 miles when we sold it.. Pretty impressive. We generally ran Pennzoil Platinum in it.

 

[slowdime]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Funny you say that.. I go 5k.. But glad I have actually. I've read on the Nissan forum how hard the VQ35de motor is on oil.
I tell ya what that the motor in your cavalier is a good motor. My lady's Sunfire had the same motor with Zero issues til 214,000 miles when we sold it.. Pretty impressive. We generally ran Pennzoil Platinum in it.


There's enough closeouts/rebates/etc on oil that if you're smart about it you can get a good deal; certainly helps if you've got a motor that's tough on it.
Yeah the cavi is the most boring car I've ever owned but the thing is dead nuts reliable. The good ol ohv is close to indestructible, I had one in my old s10 before a tree killed it. I had the valve cover off a while back and the thing was spotless underneath, got nearly 170k on the clock and hope to keep it a while since it's a decent gas miser. I'm not really brand loyal to any specific oil, got maxlife 5w30 in it now, thinking of Mobil 1 10w40 to see if it sounds a little less... agricultural while at operating temp lol

 

[The Critic]

Just another data point - I did an oil service on a friend's 2008 528i last night. The car gets serviced per the CBS recommendation, which works out to about every 15k.

Last night's oil service was done after about 14k, and the car has almost 195k on it. There's minimal oil consumption if any.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Almost without exception, every time the topic of oil change intervals comes up, someone will recommend changing early. "It's cheap insurance" being the reasoning.

I wonder what an actuary would say about that because I tend to think that frequent oil changes are actually quite expensive insurance when you consider the cost of changing oil, the likelihood of oil-related engine failure and the unknown factor of whether and by how much those more frequent changes reduce the likelihood of engine failure.

Just some round numbers. My 2007 Ford Fusion recommends 7,500 mile OCIs. If I change every 7,500 miles, that is 20 oil changes to drive 150,000 miles. Changing every 3,000 would mean 50 oil changes in the same time.

At $25 per oil change, those 30 extra changes would cost $750 and would have an unknown but likely small or nonexistent effect on the probability that my car will suffer an oil-related engine failure.

That seems like very expensive insurance.


Keep one thing in mind. Resale, and the ease of the sale. I for one would buy a car that had 5K OCI's vs. 10 K OCI's all things being equal, condition, miles, how it was used and driven, etc. In fact I wouldn't even consider the car with the 10K OCI's especially where I live.

Most car buffs would agree. More frequent OCI's in my opinion and the opinion of friends I've discussed this with agree that the car will sell easier, faster, and probably fetch a bit more. Especially if sold to an educated consumer.

If you were given a choice of two identical cars, identical in every aspect, which would you choose, the car with 5K OCI's or the car with 10K OCI's? How about the car that's driven 15K miles per year and only sees one oil change? I think the vast majority of the non-Bitog population would agree, and odds are those are the people you'd be selling it to.

So when it comes time to sell a car, the hypothetical $750 in your example might net you more cash, and a faster sale. That was the Devils Advocate side of the discussion.

 

[UNC151]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: AlienBug
My 2007 Ford Fusion recommends 7,500 mile OCIs.
There's no way I could go that far without changing the oil - not with how dirty it gets. If you can, you got more nerve than I do.
How do you know how dirty it gets? Do you have a gas chromatograph built into your eyes? There have been WAY too many used oil analysis posted on this site that show even though the oil is "dirty" that most have PLENTY of life left in them when changed. I would be willing to be a free OC than nearly 90% of the oil changed on this site still has much more than 30% life remaining in it--including yours.

 

[fdcg27]

There is a broad band between waste and neglect and much of it is colored grey.
In my case, I typically do 5-6K drains, which sometimes end up longer as a matter of convenience.
The newer Accord gets changed per the MM, which is an IOLM.
It's intersting that the difference between the shortest and the longest OCIs on this car is about 30%.
This reminds us of what we already know.
Operating conditions play a major role in determining appropriate OCIs.
I have no doubt that 10K+ OCIs are appropriate with the right oil in the right engine operated under the right conditions.
Change any variable and shorter OCIs might be more appropriate.

 

[The_Jeff]

Some engines are good, some are turkeys. We won't find out until the fleet "out there" gets 200k on them and by then it's too late to buy a new one.

Saturn made something with low tension piston rings in 1991 after years of being able to buy a car with "regular tension". These coked up if you looked at them wrong. Not to be outdone, Toyota copied this feature in 1998. How do we know that the new-off-the-lot 2016 model will or will not be easy on oil?

I buy $1000 cars for many good reasons but one standout is I can see how they do for their first owners, let them develop a reputation, and I can know what to look for and pick a cherry one. That said by the time they're $1000 many have terminal rust and my luck in finding a solid one means replacement is somewhat inconvenient and time-consuming. You can put a price on that search, in what my time is worth per hour, but it's not the perfect world of simply looking at numbers.

OTOH I can find a rusted out hulk with good engine for $300 or so if I develop problems.

 

[zach1900]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Some engines are good, some are turkeys. We won't find out until the fleet "out there" gets 200k on them and by then it's too late to buy a new one.

Saturn made something with low tension piston rings in 1991 after years of being able to buy a car with "regular tension". These coked up if you looked at them wrong. Not to be outdone, Toyota copied this feature in 1998. How do we know that the new-off-the-lot 2016 model will or will not be easy on oil?

I buy $1000 cars for many good reasons but one standout is I can see how they do for their first owners, let them develop a reputation, and I can know what to look for and pick a cherry one. That said by the time they're $1000 many have terminal rust and my luck in finding a solid one means replacement is somewhat inconvenient and time-consuming. You can put a price on that search, in what my time is worth per hour, but it's not the perfect world of simply looking at numbers.

OTOH I can find a rusted out hulk with good engine for $300 or so if I develop problems.

I've never seen a Toyota (not sure what model you're referring to) with the oil burning severity as the Saturns of that era.

 

[Shannow]

To the OP, nice idea for a thread...

I can see a couple of situations where it might be relevent:
* went 4wding and nearly drowned it;
* found a severely torn aircleaner;
* replaced an internal component;
* decided to dump a blend in the sump;
* stuck injector...

but agree, it's overused.

 

[Bamaro]

Changing oil more often than needed wastes resources, wastes time, wastes money and provides very little or no insurance.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Insurance is only ever cheap if you have a loss, and more to the point, a loss you cannot easily mitigate out of your own pocket.

More on topic, having an oil-related failure is the full possible extent of the loss.

Can you afford a new motor at whatever point in the vehicle's age where you would actually be dollars ahead to buy and have it installed?

It seems like that would be in the first 75,000 miles (to me at least) replacing with a new motor (assumed to cost $5000). Or replacing it with a similar, used and known good motor at perhaps $3000 we could extend that to the 150,000mi range.

Good oil and a good filter, owner installed, at twice the recommended interval would cost x dollars. Let's say $40 a change, so 10 extra @ 75k mi or 20 extra @ 150k miles. $400~800 over a vehicle life of 6~12 years. Lets also fix prices at 2015 dollars.

You will drive from the age of 18 to 70, or 52 years. At 12,500 mi/year, that's about 7x 6years (figure is the same for 150k/12 years, only use 3.5x12) or $2800.

You could then afford one oil-related failure with an out-of-pocket cost of between $2200 (new motor) and $200 (used good motor).

Risk-wise, it's better to use the longer OCI and roll the dice, because oil-related failure with a 7,500mi OCI is rare, and the potential savings vs potential cost are almost identical. More importantly, they are affordable, which is the poorest case for insurance in the first place.

 

[Claud]

How much will be spent on gas, other maintenance, insurance, and other expenses over 150k miles?, maybe in the grand scheme of things a few hundred dollars more spent on possibly unnecessary oil changes won't amount to a hill of beans.

Claud.