Charlotte Motor Speedway

[JasonC]

They way Nascar is going, they might not be running at Daytona much longer, or maybe running a race there with no one in the stands.


Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: billt460
All of what has been put forth lately in both the NHRA and NASCAR is circus like novelty. Change for the sake of change. Especially the 4-Wide nonsense. I realize the Scott Kalitta crash was the reason for the change in Fuel cars running 1,000'. But it was poorly thought out. In reality it has screwed up every record ever set since the dawn of 1/4 mile Top Fuel drag racing.

Suddenly E.T.'s and top speeds went out the window. It would have been far better, albeit more costly and time consuming, to improve runoff distance where possible, or else design something far better than a net and a sand trap to, "catch" them. Even if it meant they had to outright cancel Top Fuel runs at these older tracks that have too short of a runoff. Many of the more modern tracks could easily accommodate running Fuel cars the full 1/4 mile today.

But what the NHRA did was the equivalent of the NFL all of a sudden going to an 80 yard field. Or MLB shortening the distance between bases by 4'. It would throw all the statistics in the game right out the window up until that point. Times and speeds of Fuel cars don't really matter anymore. Because you really can't compare them. It changed everything.


I think one of the problems with not going with strips the cannot have the extra run-off is Pomona is one of the ones that cannot be extended. There is a golf course where it would have to be extended. Pomona is the home of the NHRA, the museum, which is totally worth going to, is there. It would look really bad for the NHRA to not run there. It would be like NASCAR not running at Daytona.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JasonC
They way Nascar is going, they might not be running at Daytona much longer, or maybe running a race there with no one in the stands.


It stands to reason. They're almost there at most of the other tracks they run on.

 

[JasonC]

I think one of their biggest problems is that Nascar doesn't want a driver with star power like Sr, Elliot, Gordon, etc. Because when a driver retires/dies then their is a big drop off in attendance, ratings, merchandise sales, etc. They would rather you tune into the brand (Nascar) than a particular driver. WWE is doing the same thing these days.

 

[Dwane17]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Originally Posted By: Warstud
Kyle Busch and Martin X were the only two to finish on the lead lap. Wow!


9 cars were on the lead lap...

I thought this race was ridiculous! Completely obvious that ol' Joe and Toyota PAID for that domination/win! C'mon, I find it awful funny Harvick "fails" inspection 3 times and starts from the back all of a sudden. Then All of a sudden you have Toyotas all in the top 10 and the fastest cars on the track? Toyota lines NASCAR pockets and if you don't see that you're blind! I love the sport but its getting to be a joke, they should've never allowed a [censored] Toyota in the race anyway. I still feel it should be mandated that you build/produce a rear wheel drive, V8 powered car to compete. Toyota has 5 times the budget Ford and Chevrolet have for racing, its easy to buy a win!



Nope, no way wins can be bought in NASCAR.
If that was ANYWAY possible, NASCARS most recent cash cow, Dale Jr, would have 100 wins and 8 championships when he retired and EVERYONE involved with NASCAR would've prospered.

Anyone who don't see that is blind.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I love the sport but its getting to be a joke, they should've never allowed a [censored] Toyota in the race anyway. I still feel it should be mandated that you build/produce a rear wheel drive, V8 powered car to compete. Toyota has 5 times the budget Ford and Chevrolet have for racing, its easy to buy a win!

How about if they required road homologation? "Stock car" racing hasn't been stock car racing for decades. The Japanese actually run more legitimate stock car racing than Ford and GM combined.

Like I've said in another thread, I've never been motivated to buy an Impala or a Fusion because of what goes on in NASCAR, since neither of them have ever raced. Cars with the same name and only a bare resemblance and no shared parts race. Now, if I look at a Ford GT, or better yet a Vette or a Nissan GT-R, I can say that versions very, very close to the road going versions are racing in GT classes all over the world. You can even go down classes and find all kinds of European road cars racing in an appropriate, lower GT class.

While it might be nice to have Toyota to have a RWD V-8 car, no one's NASCAR entry has anything in common with their road cars aside from the name. The name "stock car" is as much a joke as is a "Fusion" racing. Neither are anywhere close to reality. The last time a Fusion raced was when the neighbor kid tried to drift his parents' example around the wet corner on his way to 7-11.

No wonder Marchionne pulled out of NASCAR. There's no R&D value and the marketing just isn't there any longer.

 

[racin4ds]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I love the sport but its getting to be a joke, they should've never allowed a [censored] Toyota in the race anyway. I still feel it should be mandated that you build/produce a rear wheel drive, V8 powered car to compete. Toyota has 5 times the budget Ford and Chevrolet have for racing, its easy to buy a win!

How about if they required road homologation? "Stock car" racing hasn't been stock car racing for decades. The Japanese actually run more legitimate stock car racing than Ford and GM combined.

Like I've said in another thread, I've never been motivated to buy an Impala or a Fusion because of what goes on in NASCAR, since neither of them have ever raced. Cars with the same name and only a bare resemblance and no shared parts race. Now, if I look at a Ford GT, or better yet a Vette or a Nissan GT-R, I can say that versions very, very close to the road going versions are racing in GT classes all over the world. You can even go down classes and find all kinds of European road cars racing in an appropriate, lower GT class.

While it might be nice to have Toyota to have a RWD V-8 car, no one's NASCAR entry has anything in common with their road cars aside from the name. The name "stock car" is as much a joke as is a "Fusion" racing. Neither are anywhere close to reality. The last time a Fusion raced was when the neighbor kid tried to drift his parents' example around the wet corner on his way to 7-11.

No wonder Marchionne pulled out of NASCAR. There's no R&D value and the marketing just isn't there any longer.


True up until now Garak- If you weren't aware Chevrolet is using the Camaro this season and Ford is rolling out the Mustang next year for the 2019 season. ACTUAL RWD V8 sports cars! I feel Toyota should be kicked out until they produce a production version of a RWD V8! Simple homologation rule.

 

[Garak]

I saw that Camaro business, and that's a start.

But, we're still not seeing real Camaros racing much of anything. GT racers prefer the Vette, for which there is a GT3 specification. As for NASCAR in general, I'm not sure what the solution is. NASCAR had (and still has) certain advantages, and they should play to them. The viewing public are consumers and a more tangible link to the product on screen or at the track for live viewers would be beneficial, in my view. At one time, you could say, "I drive one of those," and not be too far off reality. Now, it's not even close. That connection has disappeared.

The Mopar, Ford, and GM lovers we've seen over the years almost invariably arose based upon NASCAR successes they witnessed in their formative years. Now, cars are appliances, and racing a "Camry" fits perfectly.

Most of the "cars" represented in NASCAR are appliances, and the same thing actually applies to the rolling stock in NASCAR, since they're purpose built for the one task, with no resemblance whatsoever with the original task at hand, which makes them, essentially, appliances, too.

I wonder how long Marchionne will keep Chrysler out of NASCAR. I suspect he won't even entertain the thought of returning until he's done threatening F1 with the same thing.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Kira
Example(s)?


NHRA:

"4-Wide"

"1,000' Runs"

NASCAR:

"Playoff's"

"Stage Racing"


NASCAR'S problem is worse than the NHRA's. 4-wide racing only afflicts two tracks, and the 1000-ft abomination only applies to Top Fuel and Funny Car. I like Pro Stock better now that they have gone to EFI, but it's not so great that the class is always 15 Chevy's and 1 Dodge that always loses in the first round. But drag racing still has strong grass roots support in the Sportsman classes, and the Junior Dragster program gets kids involved in the sport when they're young, so there will be future participants in the future who are also fans. Drag racing is still interesting for car guys to walk through the pits and see the cars being worked on, and not just the nitro classes. I like the mechanical variety that can be seen in the Comp and Modified classes.

NASCAR became too much like WWE when they instituted the Lucky Dog Rule and the Green/White/Checker finishes. I like the Playoffs and Stage Racing. Stage Racing gives the drivers incentive to run hard throughout the race, instead of just sitting in the back, then racing for the last 25% of the race. NASCAR started to decline with the economic downturn of 2008-9, and never lowered the ticket prices so that a family of 4 could have a weekend at the races for less than $1000. It's just a lot less hassle to watch on TV, where you get a better idea of what's going on in the race.

 

[Garak]

Ironically, aside from ticket prices, I've always thought that the NASCAR setup is more conducive to a live audience. Unlike something like the 24 H of Le Mans or the Ring, you can actually see the bulk of what's going on at a NASCAR oval. While I'm the first to complain about oval racing, at least it's set up to allow a high number of people high visibility.

With respect to pricing, WEC and GT3 racing tend to be very cheap (aside from getting there, which is another matter) compared to NASCAR. On the other hand, look at F1 prices, and NASCAR is a bargain.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Kira
Example(s)?


NHRA:

"4-Wide"

"1,000' Runs"

NASCAR:

"Playoff's"

"Stage Racing"


NASCAR'S problem is worse than the NHRA's. 4-wide racing only afflicts two tracks, and the 1000-ft abomination only applies to Top Fuel and Funny Car. I like Pro Stock better now that they have gone to EFI, but it's not so great that the class is always 15 Chevy's and 1 Dodge that always loses in the first round. But drag racing still has strong grass roots support in the Sportsman classes, and the Junior Dragster program gets kids involved in the sport when they're young, so there will be future participants in the future who are also fans. Drag racing is still interesting for car guys to walk through the pits and see the cars being worked on, and not just the nitro classes. I like the mechanical variety that can be seen in the Comp and Modified classes.

NASCAR became too much like WWE when they instituted the Lucky Dog Rule and the Green/White/Checker finishes. I like the Playoffs and Stage Racing. Stage Racing gives the drivers incentive to run hard throughout the race, instead of just sitting in the back, then racing for the last 25% of the race. NASCAR started to decline with the economic downturn of 2008-9, and never lowered the ticket prices so that a family of 4 could have a weekend at the races for less than $1000. It's just a lot less hassle to watch on TV, where you get a better idea of what's going on in the race.


During the early 2000's and into the timeframe of the recession, I was working on a couple lower budget TF teams. When the Economy took a dive, the Sportsman classes and low-budget Pro teams really thinned out. Not to mention the spectators. I'd say the number of participants never has reached the pre-recession levels, but the spectators fill the stands at most events these days.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
NASCAR'S problem is worse than the NHRA's.


At this point I would have to agree. But it could get out of hand quickly. And already is in regards to big money sponsorship. The glory days of unlimited money for decades, from outfits like Budweiser and Castrol are over. These guys show up and the fans don't know what will be painted on the side of their cars from race to race.

NASCAR is the same. Teams are struggling for dollars. Lowe's is dumping Jimmie Johnson. And much like the NHRA, the days of unlimited big money sponsorships from companies like DuPont, (Jeff Gordon), and Valvoline, (Mark Martin), are long gone. These guys are going to have to scratch for every dollar. And the more fans that disappear, the harder they'll have to scratch. There is no point in having a "rolling billboard", if no one shows up to watch it.