Charging to get home

PandaBear said:
So I guess my question would be: would you plan this schedule if you are not getting gas? How the society in general get gas, and does everyone line up at Costco to get the cheaper gas on Sunday morning.

Prices of gas and the location of gas stations are there for a reason (assuming they are not the super expensive gas station because they don't want to sell gas, just to use the place for repair shops or smog check), and if you look at typical gas price they are where they are because the market supports it: most people value their time and they probably fuel up more often.

So, maybe they will save money buying a Tesla vs a BMW, maybe they (used to be able to) were using EV to get on carpool lane to reduce commute time, maybe they are toys (most cars and trucks purchases are emotional), but there are better ways to save money than buying a Tesla or gasing up at Costco Sunday morning. They can buy a Prius Prime and call it a day.
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We generally get gas and shop at Costco in 1 trip. There is a closer Costco that doesn't have gas; I rarely shop there. I doubt I would drive 13 miles each way just to get gas. That would be almost 2 gallons in the Tundra and at least 1 in the GS.

On early Sunday mornings, there are no gas lines at Costco. I hate gas lines.

By the way, I bought the Tesla because I wanted it. It had little to do with need or fiscal responsibility. I make no bones about that.
 
JHZR2 said:
You’re making my point. It’s about planning. A gas car will draw down idling too. Maybe not as quickly though?

But it will “refill” far faster and easier too.
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It is not a direct comparison. As Critic says, the "planning" would have to be to "refill" at home or at work. So let's say you have this service call Booster at work, where they drive a mini tanker to your workplace to fill up your gas at the low end of market rate. The only problem is you cannot drive your car out during the time slot so you have to eat at the cafeteria. This basically avoid the whole "you are wasting time at gas station but you could just drive an EV out fully charged each morning" argument. You don't need to pay a huge premium for that convenience.

If you are getting cheap electricity that's another positive for EV, but as you heard from Critic, electricity isn't always cheaper vs gas in a plug in hybrid, it is really plan and location specific. If you are lucky like Jeff, then you get "free" electricity.

To me, I don't commute in the sweet spot to get the EV advantage or free electricity (I'm getting 36c-42c/kwh). Gas is $5/gal but my car is 40mpg, so the best for me and the environment is to keep driving what I have, or replace it with a new Corolla (maybe hybrid) when it is worn out. If I drive 100 miles a day you can bet one of my car in the family would be an EV that has 200-300 miles range.
 
Astro14 said:
Waiting in line to buy gas is your choice. And it’s your choice just to save a couple bucks on the fill up because you’re already there.

Even my wife, who is quite frugal, skips the Costco gas station because it’s a hassle.

The Exxon 1/4 mile from me never has a line. They’re 20 cents a gallon more than Costco, which is ten miles away.

I’ll pay the equivalent of a Starbucks coffee to avoid any kind of line. So will she.
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Exactly. That's why I go early, especially on Sundays. There are no lines. I don't shop Costco at all during the middle of the day.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Exactly. That's why I go early, especially on Sundays. There are no lines. I don't shop Costco at all during the middle of the day.
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Typically for people with long commute, they need to gas up probably every 2-4 days. I used to do that and I have a particular place I stop along the freeway (Daly City) in the middle of nowhere for cheap fill then get back on the road, or I order Booster to come to workplace parking lot to fill up. I would never wait 5-10 mins in line to get gas at Costco if I am commuting.

I am aware you buy your Tesla because you enjoy it instead of saving money or environment, but to strictly evaluate it without emotion, buying a Tesla to save time getting gas, isn't a good use for your money. If you don't drive that much you to do your routine, you may not save enough money on the battery depreciation alone. This applies not only to Tesla but to other long range EV as well; you have to drive enough to justify the gas savings or the environmental impact (battery production pollution vs gas refinery and burning pollution). A rarely driven gas car is more environmentally friendly than a rarely driven EV, and hybrid / plug in hybrid is somewhere in between to better than both.
 
PandaBear said:
Typically for people with long commute, they need to gas up probably every 2-4 days. I used to do that and I have a particular place I stop along the freeway (Daly City) in the middle of nowhere for cheap fill then get back on the road, or I order Booster to come to workplace parking lot to fill up. I would never wait 5-10 mins in line to get gas at Costco if I am commuting.

I am aware you buy your Tesla because you enjoy it instead of saving money or environment, but to strictly evaluate it without emotion, buying a Tesla to save time getting gas, isn't a good use for your money. If you don't drive that much you to do your routine, you may not save enough money on the battery depreciation alone. This applies not only to Tesla but to other long range EV as well; you have to drive enough to justify the gas savings or the environmental impact (battery production pollution vs gas refinery and burning pollution). A rarely driven gas car is more environmentally friendly than a rarely driven EV, and hybrid / plug in hybrid is somewhere in between to better than both.
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Another consideration is the desire for a new car. I know that was part of my parents' thinking when they got the Model 3 RWD - that they got their last car 15 years ago. Once there's the want of a new car, then the considerations of the cost of ownership become a factor.

Heck - I remember one time I went over to help them with something, and they said I should just take their Model 3 since the cost of driving it was considerably cheaper than my gas car, and since I'm on a tight budget right now. But the car is paid for and the consideration now is just the incremental cost of ownership. It's also ideal for short trip driving (doesn't really have to warm up an engine for emissions), although theoretically prepping it for departure helps with regenerative braking effectiveness. But I wouldn't discount the environmental benefits of an EV, where there is no such thing as a "cold start" where a catalytic converter needs time to be effective.
 
y_p_w said:
Another consideration is the desire for a new car. I know that was part of my parents' thinking when they got the Model 3 RWD - that they got their last car 15 years ago. Once there's the want of a new car, then the considerations of the cost of ownership become a factor.

Heck - I remember one time I went over to help them with something, and they said I should just take their Model 3 since the cost of driving it was considerably cheaper than my gas car, and since I'm on a tight budget right now. But the car is paid for and the consideration now is just the incremental cost of ownership. It's also ideal for short trip driving (doesn't really have to warm up an engine for emissions), although theoretically prepping it for departure helps with regenerative braking effectiveness. But I wouldn't discount the environmental benefits of an EV, where there is no such thing as a "cold start" where a catalytic converter needs time to be effective.
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Very true. EV is really a "pay it up front" vs gas is a "pay as we go" sort of deal. Everything on EV is paid up front like pollution, depreciation by years, charging vs gas is more of an on demand pollution, depreciation by miles, and gas up as you drive kind of deal. If you already have an EV sitting around doing nothing, it make sense to just drive it.

Which brings me back to my point earlier, buying an EV to sit around is actually the worst thing you can do to it.
 
PandaBear said:
Very true. EV is really a "pay it up front" vs gas is a "pay as we go" sort of deal. Everything on EV is paid up front like pollution, depreciation by years, charging vs gas is more of an on demand pollution, depreciation by miles, and gas up as you drive kind of deal. If you already have an EV sitting around doing nothing, it make sense to just drive it.

Which brings me back to my point earlier, buying an EV to sit around is actually the worst thing you can do to it.
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The other thing about my parents' Tesla has been that it's been a bonding experience since I'm kind of expected to help out with the technology.
 
PandaBear said:
Which brings me back to my point earlier, buying an EV to sit around is actually the worst thing you can do to it.
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That's true of just about any asset.
Buying our Model 3 was a horrible fiscal decision. Now, the stock was about $22 at the time... The car has devalued; the stock has appreciated. That's an 11x gain... Over $600K today. Yup. Stupid move on my part!
 
Edmunds.com is an interesting site. Their car comparison page is always entertaining, especially the cost per mile. The absolute most economical to operate vehicles are over 40cpm and get into the BMW/MB category and it is 7x/8x/9x cpm if not well more. So the Costco that is 12 miles away with cheaper gas costs ten bucks each way all in. Poof, imaginary savings gone.
 
LDB said:
Edmunds.com is an interesting site. Their car comparison page is always entertaining, especially the cost per mile. The absolute most economical to operate vehicles are over 40cpm and get into the BMW/MB category and it is 7x/8x/9x cpm if not well more. So the Costco that is 12 miles away with cheaper gas costs ten bucks each way all in. Poof, imaginary savings gone.
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I would love to see the calculation. Otherwise the numbers are meaningless.
 
LDB said:
Edmunds.com is an interesting site. Their car comparison page is always entertaining, especially the cost per mile. The absolute most economical to operate vehicles are over 40cpm and get into the BMW/MB category and it is 7x/8x/9x cpm if not well more. So the Costco that is 12 miles away with cheaper gas costs ten bucks each way all in. Poof, imaginary savings gone.
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Agreed. Costco fill up only makes sense if you’re already there, as @JeffKeryk has said.

But even if we are already there, my time is worth more to me than the couple of dollars in savings on gas.
 
Astro14 said:
Agreed. Costco fill up only makes sense if you’re already there, as @JeffKeryk has said.

But even if we are already there, my time is worth more to me than the couple of dollars in savings on gas.
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The Costco I use the most (Richmond, CA) is close to the freeway and relatively close to where I live. When I was commuting in the mornings, I might hit that one or perhaps one on the way, and they rarely had any lines during morning commute hours. They're open well before the warehouse opens and stay open after the warehouses close.

I did find my way to one in Sacramento once when I was staying overnight. That was well off the freeway but it was early morning and I really didn't have a schedule planned out for my day.
 
The Critic said:
When my wife and I shop at Costco, one person does the shopping while the other gets gas. No time wasted and the benefits of both are realized.
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If one person can do the shopping why send 2? Wouldn't that person not going be saving even more time at home, like, cleaning, cooking, working?
 
PandaBear said:
If one person can do the shopping why send 2? Wouldn't that person not going be saving even more time at home, like, cleaning, cooking, working?
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One person is doing the shopping. Another person is doing the car chores. They just happen to be sharing a ride to the same general destination to do both. Efficient use of time and resources.
 
OVERKILL said:
Nuclear, hydro and wind all have lower lifecycle emissions than solar, FWIW. So they are "greener".
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Solar is a fast build - our new wind farm has been going in for months - whereas they popped in a field of solar in weeks …
(no idea the MW comparison - less for sure) …
Honestly it all has a disposable feel …
 
The Critic said:
Just for giggles - mapped out a "round trip" from the East Bay to an area right outside of Sacramento. 183 mile round trip. Vehicle used for mapping is a current-gen Model Y LR (330 mile range).

Based on historical data and current conditions, software wants a 5 min charging stop upon arriving at the destination.

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On paper, one would not expect for a vehicle with a 330 mile range to require a 5 min charging stop during a 183 mile round trip in flat terrain, but this goes to show you that a lot of variables are being contemplated in the route planning.
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The trip planning is cool been fooling around with it. I don’t have a need for a Tesla but would be cool to have one I’m a car guy so I always want different cars lol. But it was interesting one trip I routed out with a model y performance it had me stopping for a charge like 30 mins from where I started seems kinda weird but it knows it’s charging layout best I suppose

I like the ev6 gt better on paper but the Tesla will be eligible for the good discount in 24 not that the ev6 hasn’t come down in price the Kia service center if I need it is not the best as most have experienced across the US
 
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