Charging to get home

[y_p_w]

Funny because Costco is always crowded and the lines are long for gas. Can’t say I’ve ever encountered a crowd for gas anyplace else.

I have seen a crowd at most super chargers I’ve gone to…

I've seen lots at some locations. Quite a few Teslas with out of state plates, which were obviously on long road trips. Had to wait for a space at the only one within 90-100 miles. And on top of that, there were 8 but two weren't working.

I even drove by one that had zero users along with one where we were the only one there for about half the time. Some of the ones in remote locations obviously aren't going to get a whole lot of use, but certainly fill in the gaps.

 

[JeffKeryk]

What's nice is the app tells you the number of chargers, the number in use and the number out of service.

 

[y_p_w]

Sunday mornings at 8:30 is best for a Costco trip. I rarely go after 10 AM. Maybe to pickup an Interstate battery...
The gas station has 30 to 40 pumps. No lines early but certainly not empty.
Remember, gas ain't cheap around here; Costco sells a lot. It can be 50 cents a gallon cheaper, even more.

The only place I have seen a full Tesla Supercharger location is downtown Los Gatos behind a huge Safeway complex. It was installed before the S came out. 20 Superchargers and they are the old 72 kW.

The one I mentioned earlier was in Eureka. It would have been 90 miles to Crescent City or 100 miles to Weaverville. I likely had enough charge to get to Weaverville in the morning, but I didn't want to chance it. So I waited. It was a bit weird. I'm not sure what the line etiquette is supposed to be. I was the only driver waiting so I parked at a nearby spot. Then someone else showed up and stopped in the middle of the lane, although it was on the edge of an extremely empty parking lot. But I kind of looked at that driver, kind of pointed at the chargers, and I think the driver acknowledged that I was there first and I managed to take the next available charger.

Are you sure about the 72 kW ones? The ones on the shorter posts and not an arch? I heard those are called "Urban Superchargers" and the best I can figure is that they were introduced in 2017. I think the first generation were 100 kW but I'm thinking they've all been removed/replaced. This photo is supposedly from 2014:

 

[y_p_w]

What's nice is the app tells you the number of chargers, the number in use and the number out of service.

And the cost. If anyone is cost conscious, I've actually seen differences in price for Superchargers less than 2 miles from each other. Often the small 72 kW ones are cheaper in the same area and if you're just topping off the lower charge rate may not matter because the charge rate is going to be limited anyways.

 

[ecotourist]

I wouldn't say it shouldn't be an issue to you. It is still worth something if it can be driven indefinitely and the anticipated battery replacement would put a dent in the depreciation and trade in. Look at Nissan Leaf vs Nissan Versa, Leaf is sold at almost no value due to the anticipated battery problem / replacement cost vs Versa still hold up quite well due to no problem. The right way to look at EV cost is actually depreciation of battery and its replacement cost, like a house with a roof replacement cost factored in.

I usually keep my cars until they have little resale value anyway. The Tesla may be different though as I expect my daughter would like to have this one before then. I like this one so well I might just get another one in a few years (a red one next time). I might even spring for a long range or performance edition though the basic model is actually pretty good.

The first generation Leafs were good cars - just not for very long. Their batteries degraded to almost no range within a very few years. Tesla batteries seem to be much better. The charts show very little degradation over a couple of hundred thousand miles (a bit fast initially then almost flat lining). A small number of Tesla batteries fail early (some internal defect) but that's why you have a warranty.

 

[ecotourist]

Are you sure about the 72 kW ones? The ones on the shorter posts and not an arch? I heard those are called "Urban Superchargers" and the best I can figure is that they were introduced in 2017. I think the first generation were 100 kW but I'm thinking they've all been removed/replaced. This photo is supposedly from 2014:

I'm surprised that Superchargers go as low as 72 kWs. Most of the ones in western Canada are (unshared) 250 kW. Most have been installed recently. Seems that sometimes it's good to be late to the party.

 

[y_p_w]

I'm surprised that Superchargers go as low as 72 kWs. Most of the ones in western Canada are (unshared) 250 kW. Most have been installed recently. Seems that sometimes it's good to be late to the party.

The 72 kW version has its place. They're all guaranteed to be able to put out their rated power and they require a simpler power infrastructure. Some are indoors in parking garages and they take up less space. And they're cheaper to make, install, and operate. Still - I've used one in my area along with the more powerful ones, and they still have that super thick, liquid cooled cable. But overall it sounds like they're bridging the gap between the fastest charging and putting out as many as possible.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/supercharging-cities

 

[demarpaint]

I haven’t had this issue, at least I don’t think so. The end of my charging cable lays outside - it’s routed underneath the garage door. Then again they’d probably plug in, realize it’s just level 1 charging and gets them a few miles per hour of charging, and go elsewhere. If I had a good Level 2 charger I wouldn’t leave it out in the open like that.

The house is in a wooded area with a lot of other well spaced vacation homes, w/o a garage so there lies the problem. I guess the simple fix is to throw the breaker, which hopefully doesn't shut something off in the house that needs to stay on, and the person helping himself doesn't do something in spite. I doubt that would happen though, especially with the ring device. I did see locally while walking someone having an EV plug in provision to the left of his garage door mounted outside of the house. That house is in a well populated area with a fairly high crime rate. CC's are being cut out of cars around here, so I think having it in the garage would be a better idea, but this guy has a one car garage with a lot of crap in it.

 

[andrew_j]

Outside home EV chargers seem relatively common in VT near ski towns at least. I saw at least 8-10 EVs out in -10F plugged in with with level ii against homes that are over 100 years old.

 

[demarpaint]

Outside home EV chargers seem relatively common in VT near ski towns at least. I saw at least 8-10 EVs out in -10F plugged in with with level ii against homes that are over 100 years old.

It might be wise if they're vacation homes to throw the breaker powering it off when they leave the house for a long period.

 

[i6pwr]

Corolla gets 40 MPG HWY, that's about $3.50.

Takes 5 min to fill the whole tank and get back on the road.

I just don't see the lure, but they have their certain niche.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Corolla gets 40 MPG HWY, that's about $3.50.

Takes 5 min to fill the whole tank and get back on the road.

I just don't see the lure, but they have their certain niche.

There is no $3.50 per gallon gas around here.
Again, I am not making a point for or against. It is simply informative. I am experimenting with Supercharging. I could have charged more at home overnight and not needed to stop. But my plan was to stop, plug in, get a coffee and see how much I gained. Because the chargers were in the back of a huge shopping center, it would have taken more than 10 minutes to get a coffee.

If I were driving to San Diego, a Corolla would save the better part of an hour because I would have to stop and charge even if I started with a 100% SOC. Now, some of that can be mitigated if you consider bio-breaks, eating, etc. But from a time fueling standpoint, the Corolla wins hands down. Of course the Corolla fuel cost would be higher, if that is important to you.

Finally, it is fair to say that I live in a Tesla bubble; few other states have the plethora of Superchargers so your trip route is more dictated by charging requirements. And not all of CA is as charger dense as my area, as others have pointed out.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The house is in a wooded area with a lot of other well spaced vacation homes, w/o a garage so there lies the problem. I guess the simple fix is to throw the breaker, which hopefully doesn't shut something off in the house that needs to stay on, and the person helping himself doesn't do something in spite. I doubt that would happen though, especially with the ring device. I did see locally while walking someone having an EV plug in provision to the left of his garage door mounted outside of the house. That house is in a well populated area with a fairly high crime rate. CC's are being cut out of cars around here, so I think having it in the garage would be a better idea, but this guy has a one car garage with a lot of crap in it.

The NEMA 14-50 receptacle is generally on a dedicated circuit, so that should not be a problem. Of course, maybe the service panel is outside as well?

 

[y_p_w]

There is no $3.50 per gallon gas around here.
Again, I am not making a point for or against. It is simply informative. I am experimenting with Supercharging. I could have charged more at home overnight and not needed to stop. But my plan was to stop, plug in, get a coffee and see how much I gained. Because the chargers were in the back of a huge shopping center, it would have taken more than 10 minutes to get a coffee.

If I were driving to San Diego, a Corolla would save the better part of an hour because I would have to stop and charge even if I started with a 100% SOC. Now, some of that can be mitigated if you consider bio-breaks, eating, etc. But from a time fueling standpoint, the Corolla wins hands down. Of course the Corolla fuel cost would be higher, if that is important to you.

A lot of the thinking is that “I’ve got this car, so I’ll make it work.” Certainly it takes more planning.

Locations relative to a point of interest vary a lot. I mentioned that one in Eureka that was the only option for about 100 miles. There were other J1772 chargers, but they were likely Level 2 (and is there an adapter for Level 3?) and not integrated into Tesla’s navigation. But it was visible from 101, which is a city street there. And while I was charging for about 45 minutes I was thinking of going to the Walmart there, but the main portion of the mall was closed and it was a long way walking around to get to entrance.

But I’ve seen some that were in prime locations. As in mixed in with disabled parking.

 

[demarpaint]

The NEMA 14-50 receptacle is generally on a dedicated circuit, so that should not be a problem. Of course, maybe the service panel is outside as well?

Yes it should be as simple as throwing a breaker. I'm sure the lesson was learned.

 

[JohnnyG]

Rolling blackouts probably aren't that big a deal for EV charging given that most EV owners charge at night - especially with EV-specific time of use rate plans.

My understanding in Texas is that they typically peak at around 7-8 PM because people are home from work and turning on their A/C to cool down their homes that were baking all day. The supply is made worse since solar output is down or completely gone. But demand should be alleviated by midnight as the temps drop. I found this chart which shows power demand in June 2022 during a heat wave. I'm thinking EV charging demand is probably somewhere in there.

So why is Texas dumb enough to allow all the Bitcoin miners in? I read an article yesterday that ERCOT paid a miner $35 Million dollars NOT TO DIG FOR COIN!
Somebody's lining a few pockets I'm afraid.

 

[Astro_Guy]

48 miles in 10 mins for $5 isn’t anything to write home about either.

This reminds me of a time I had to stop in Westchester, NY on the way home from Boston back around 2001. I didn't have enough fuel to make it home and was worrined about the possibility of a traffic jam on the Tappan Zee bridge or I-287. At the time I was running an Audi A4 1.8 Turbo Quattro that took premium fuel. Forty eight miles for $5 would have been a steal 22 years ago in that scenario. It's an even better buy now.

 

[PimTac]

The house is in a wooded area with a lot of other well spaced vacation homes, w/o a garage so there lies the problem. I guess the simple fix is to throw the breaker, which hopefully doesn't shut something off in the house that needs to stay on, and the person helping himself doesn't do something in spite. I doubt that would happen though, especially with the ring device. I did see locally while walking someone having an EV plug in provision to the left of his garage door mounted outside of the house. That house is in a well populated area with a fairly high crime rate. CC's are being cut out of cars around here, so I think having it in the garage would be a better idea, but this guy has a one car garage with a lot of crap in it.

Another thought would be to enclose the cable in a locking structure like those prefabricated storage sheds for lawnmowers.

 

[PandaBear]

Why is that? We typically hit Costco about 13 miles away, early Sunday by 8:30 AM. Fill up one of the gas cars and shop. Of course that can waste a gallon or 2 based on distance, so if I am not shopping I can just pay more, closer to home.

I am appreciating the Model 3, I can tell you that much. I am not a fan of crowds while shopping and certainly in line for gas.
By the way, we have a hybrid. They are great for many, but I will not buy another. EV is better for my use case.

So I guess my question would be: would you plan this schedule if you are not getting gas? How the society in general get gas, and does everyone line up at Costco to get the cheaper gas on Sunday morning.

Prices of gas and the location of gas stations are there for a reason (assuming they are not the super expensive gas station because they don't want to sell gas, just to use the place for repair shops or smog check), and if you look at typical gas price they are where they are because the market supports it: most people value their time and they probably fuel up more often.

So, maybe they will save money buying a Tesla vs a BMW, maybe they (used to be able to) were using EV to get on carpool lane to reduce commute time, maybe they are toys (most cars and trucks purchases are emotional), but there are better ways to save money than buying a Tesla or gasing up at Costco Sunday morning. They can buy a Prius Prime and call it a day.

 

[Astro14]

Why is that? We typically hit Costco about 13 miles away, early Sunday by 8:30 AM. Fill up one of the gas cars and shop. Of course that can waste a gallon or 2 based on distance, so if I am not shopping I can just pay more, closer to home.

I am appreciating the Model 3, I can tell you that much. I am not a fan of crowds while shopping and certainly in line for gas.
By the way, we have a hybrid. They are great for many, but I will not buy another. EV is better for my use case.

Waiting in line to buy gas is your choice. And it’s your choice just to save a couple bucks on the fill up because you’re already there.

Even my wife, who is quite frugal, skips the Costco gas station because it’s a hassle.

The Exxon 1/4 mile from me never has a line. They’re 20 cents a gallon more than Costco, which is ten miles away.

I’ll pay the equivalent of a Starbucks coffee to avoid any kind of line. So will she.