Charger Voltage Too High
- Thread starter willbur
- Start date
If internal resistance increased with the state of charge you would end up with a totally useless power source once it's fully charged.
Not possible to get at internal resistance figures for all battery manufacturers because they simply do not publish them.
Here is a typical Ritar battery spec sheet .............. may find the same for some Yuasa and Varta branded batteries
Not going to argue about it, but the guy you spoke to obviously has no clue what he is talking about if he is standing by his statement as a battery manufacturer representative and I would never buy a battery from him/his company irrespective of the supposed reputation
General chemistry and simple electronic engineering equations agree (as does my battery internal resistance meter I use for determining the quality/abilities of a battery bank)
The net is full of both chemistry and electrical experiments to show the way - a few examples
BU-802a: How does Rising Internal Resistance affect Performance?
How does rising internal resistance of a battery affect performance. Sulfation and grid corrosion are primary contributors.
batteryuniversity.com
How does Internal Resistance affect Performance?
Battery University™ is a free educational website offering hands-on battery information.
batteryuniversity.com
The internal resistance determines the cranking amps. Doesn't a properly charged battery put out the most amps? The charging voltage as seen by the battery = charger voltage - battery voltage, so the charger compensates for the rise in battery voltage
Thank you for your response and research. I think some issues are being ignored (ionic and electronic resistance, reactance, blah blah blah) and this is going side ways from my original post regarding a too high charging voltage. I stand by OHMS Law. It explains it best.If internal resistance increased with the state of charge you would end up with a totally useless power source once it's fully charged.
Not possible to get at internal resistance figures for all battery manufacturers because they simply do not publish them.
Here is a typical Ritar battery spec sheet .............. may find the same for some Yuasa and Varta branded batteries
Not going to argue about it, but the guy you spoke to obviously has no clue what he is talking about if he is standing by his statement as a battery manufacturer representative and I would never buy a battery from him/his company irrespective of the supposed reputation
General chemistry and simple electronic engineering equations agree (as does my battery internal resistance meter I use for determining the quality/abilities of a battery bank)
The net is full of both chemistry and electrical experiments to show the way - a few examples
BU-802a: How does Rising Internal Resistance affect Performance?
How does rising internal resistance of a battery affect performance. Sulfation and grid corrosion are primary contributors.
How does Internal Resistance affect Performance?
Battery University™ is a free educational website offering hands-on battery information.
I too have been standing by Ohms law for 65 years ............... yes it explains it best - "IT" NOT being how charging systems work on a lead-acid battery
Since you do not seem to want to read and understand, let me post a simple graph from those links to show you how wrong you are
Attachments
Dude- pls understand that I'm trying to avoid an endless discussion of this. Yes- I have seem that graph and others when I was checking into this before you're trying to educate me. I too have been familiar with OHMS Law for a long time but I dont want to be the "smartest guy in the room", as you are with your condesending comments. Out
JHZR2
Staff member
I’ve never seen this. I guess anything could be defective, but it’s dubious.Repair Mode? First thing I thought. It was not initiated by me- especially because it happend on TWO batteries. Batteries were connected for multiple days and totally left alone. To initiate repair mode requires two deliberate actions: press standby and then hold down for 3 seconds. Not something done inadvertently. Perhaps the charger malfunctioned? I'm sending it back for warranty evaluation by NOCO, but whatever they say or do, I'm getting a CTEK.
NOCO tells me this is "normal" charging (twice), and the way its chargers work.
I guess nothing fails, even cars. if you have not experienced/seen it, it cant be? LOL
I use adjustable voltage power supplies for battery charging, and mine either have 40 or 100 amps available to bring the batteries as high as 19.23v on the 40 amp supply and 15.5v on the 100 amp power supply.
I have and voltmeters and Ammeters on the output and on the battery and double check/ compare, experiment often. Change the pressure, watch the what the battery accepts. Very enlightening.
Every time I have decided a flooded battery might benefit from an 'equalization' charge, which is basically a forced overcharge applied after a normal 'full charge' it has taken 4+ amps on a 65lb group 31 flooded marine battery to get the battery upto 16.2 volts. Usually it required 6.5 amps at first and when it tapered to ~4 amps, then the hydrometer indicated that the specific Gravity of the weakest cell, accounting for rising electrolyte temperature, was no longer rising and any further time holding the battery at these high electrical pressures was unwarranted and abusive, and a waste of time and electricity.
When I have noticed my DMM's reading unexpectedly high voltages, Their internal batteries were on their way out.
Holding a 12v nominal lead acid battery at 16+ volts in anything but a brief repair/recondition mode is damaging to the battery.
The equalization modes intended to return a deep cycling lead acid battery back to its maximum potential remaining capacity is a procedure, best monitored frequently and ended immediately once specific gravity stop rising, or battery temperature starts rising quickly.
The battery is almost fizzing like a fresh opened seltzer water at 15.5+ volts, I can smell it from quite a distance away.
Noco telling you this voltage, is normal and expected, disqualifies all their products forever after, in my mind.
I have and voltmeters and Ammeters on the output and on the battery and double check/ compare, experiment often. Change the pressure, watch the what the battery accepts. Very enlightening.
Every time I have decided a flooded battery might benefit from an 'equalization' charge, which is basically a forced overcharge applied after a normal 'full charge' it has taken 4+ amps on a 65lb group 31 flooded marine battery to get the battery upto 16.2 volts. Usually it required 6.5 amps at first and when it tapered to ~4 amps, then the hydrometer indicated that the specific Gravity of the weakest cell, accounting for rising electrolyte temperature, was no longer rising and any further time holding the battery at these high electrical pressures was unwarranted and abusive, and a waste of time and electricity.
When I have noticed my DMM's reading unexpectedly high voltages, Their internal batteries were on their way out.
Holding a 12v nominal lead acid battery at 16+ volts in anything but a brief repair/recondition mode is damaging to the battery.
The equalization modes intended to return a deep cycling lead acid battery back to its maximum potential remaining capacity is a procedure, best monitored frequently and ended immediately once specific gravity stop rising, or battery temperature starts rising quickly.
The battery is almost fizzing like a fresh opened seltzer water at 15.5+ volts, I can smell it from quite a distance away.
Noco telling you this voltage, is normal and expected, disqualifies all their products forever after, in my mind.
Her ya go bro..."I never saw it "go off the reservation" like I've seen nocos do." Uncle Dave- "Battery Charger Testing Results"
the debate over battery resistance and ohm's law reminds me of undergrad EE lab. here's how I remember it... you can't really apply ohms law to a charging battery, at least not in a way that can be compared with the concept of battery internal resistance under discharge. these are 2 different things. the reason charge current drops as the battery charges is not because its "internal resistance" is increasing... it's because the SO4 on the plates is being depleted --- it's the movement of those ions in the electrolyte that causes charge current, and once the they are all forced back into solution (when the battery is fully charged) the charge current drops to almost nothing --- but that doesn't mean the battery's "internal resistance" is high... quite the contrary, it is now lower than before because the layer of PbSO4 on the plates is now mostly gone, and there's a boatload of SO4 in the electrolyte ready to move charges and deliver power to a load. As the PbSO4 layer on the plates builds up & solidifies over time with repeated charge/discharge cycles the battery's "internal resistance" naturally increases until it gets so high that the battery is no longer useful as a power source.
at least that's how it was explained to me in my younger years.
at least that's how it was explained to me in my younger years.
If it were me, I'd chuck that charger in the trash barrel. 16.6V is way too high for a starting battery, either FLA or AGM unless it's 30 below zero.
Correct and thanks. What I observed on a charger with an amp meter was a decrease in amperage as the battery charged up and an increase in dcv at a connected voltmeter. I believed this was ohms law, but was contadicted as water (high resistance) is converted back to lower resistance electrolyte(sp). Something else was going on, not ohms law. You confirmed what I thought all along-but tech support at a major battery manufacteur cited ohms law. I accepted this, thinking they must know better. Maybe their tech person was misinformed or misunderstood me..
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