Changing ATF when there's no dipstick

[pbm]

I've had good luck changing the ATF on both my (sold) 2011 Chevy Cruze and my 2016 Ford Escape by draining the fluid COLD
and measuring what came out and refilling the same amount. I know that ATF expands when HOT and measuring the COLD amount will
guarantee the same amount is replaced (even though it doesn't mean that amount is correct if the fluid was low to begin with).

My question is...If I drain the fluid HOT and allow it to sit overnight (become COLD) before measuring the amount....will I get the measurement correct the same as if I had drained it COLD? I always prefer draining fluids that are warm or hot to get more debris out.....Thoughts?

 

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by pbm
I've had good luck changing the ATF on both my (sold) 2011 Chevy Cruze and my 2016 Ford Escape by draining the fluid COLD
and measuring what came out and refilling the same amount. I know that ATF expands when HOT and measuring the COLD amount will
guarantee the same amount is replaced (even though it doesn't mean that amount is correct if the fluid was low to begin with).

My question is...If I drain the fluid HOT and allow it to sit overnight (become COLD) before measuring the amount....will I get the measurement correct as if I drained it COLD? I always prefer draining fluids that are warm or hot to get more debris out.....Thoughts?


I think that you'd get the same results! The ONLY reason for measuring the amount in the transmission when hot is to account for expansion so that one doesn't overfill.
I find these dipstick-less transmissions to be a BIG PITA

 

[The Critic]

I would start with a cold transmission and refill when it is also cold. The exact rate of expansion is unclear. Plus the fluid level is not always correct from the factory. There have been numerous experiences where I have drained more hot and refilled with less cold, and I do own a scan tool to check the fluid and the proper temps.

You can purchase scan tools for under $250 which will allow you to do this job properly...

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by Pelican


I think that you'd get the same results! The ONLY reason for measuring the amount in the transmission when hot is to account for expansion so that one doesn't overfill.
I find these dipstick-less transmissions to be a BIG PITA



I AGREE....ATF was hard enough to get an accurate reading after changing even when there was a dipstick but this seems to be a ploy to get you into the dealership for 'maintenance' ….

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by pbm


I AGREE....ATF was hard enough to get an accurate reading after changing even when there was a dipstick but this seems to be a ploy to get you into the dealership for 'maintenance' ….

Not going to comment on the dealership matter but dipstick-less transmissions allow you to set the fluid level more accurately. As you described yourself, dipsticks can be difficult to obtain the correct reading and the issue of thermal expansion still applies; if you do not know the fluid temp, the dipstick is not entirely accurate either. Setting the fluid level at a specific temp with a fill/check plug does allow for a more precise fluid level adjustment.

 

[dblshock]

I like the second idea, drain hot suspend the particles then measure cold for replacement.

 

[dubber09]

I just let car sit in garage at least overnight to cool down to the same temp that new ATF in jugs (stored in garage) is, then drain>measure and measure>fill.

 

[HorseThief]

I guess I'm the only one here with a stove and an angry wife.....

 

[djb]

The reason the manufacturers got rid of dipsticks were studies that showed the overwhelming cause of transmission failures in the warranty period was something introduced through the dipstick tube. Adding the wrong fluid, too much fluid or grit through the dipstick tube caused problems much more frequently than a failure due to too little fluid.

People that go to the effort of lifting a car and have the right tool for the drain plug will rarely mistakenly fill with coolant or washer fluid.

With a fill port it's almost impossible to overfill a transmission.
It is, however, easy to under-fill. One of the primary values of changing the transmission fluid is to make up fluid that has leaked past seals. You aren't doing anything positive by only refilling with the measured amount drained.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Well, it shouldn't be that hard. The level is the same whether the use a dip stick or a level port.
Nowadays you can buy a Bluetooth OBD2 module for $20 and read the temp on your smart phone, Ipad, etc.

Drain, fill approx what you drained or spec... Bring up to temp and check.
It ain't rocket science.

 

[benjy]

say what your working on, theres always a recommended procedure for every different vehicle that can be done correctly at home!!

 

[Dave1027]

Just drain it then fill cold with engine off till it runs out the fill hole. Then start the engine and continue filling. Idle engine till the transmission is at proper temperature and fluid is dribbling out the fill hole then cap it. No need to try to figure out how much came out. You are making the process harder than it is.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by Dave1027
Just drain it then fill cold with engine off till it runs out the fill hole. Then start the engine and continue filling. Idle engine till the transmission is at proper temperature and fluid is dribbling out the fill hole then cap it. No need to try to figure out how much came out. You are making the process harder than it is.


The keyword is proper temp - engine coolant, engine oil and transmission fluid will warm up at very different rates. For example on older Toyota vehicles you can have the coolant temp be 180F+ but the transmission fluid will still be in the 120 range. Same with the Nissan CVTs that take NS-2. You actually have to drive the car for 15mi+ before the transmission fluid will be fully warmed up.

Ford specifies for the ATF to be checked at 185-200F.

 

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by The Critic

Not going to comment on the dealership matter but dipstick-less transmissions allow you to set the fluid level more accurately. As you described yourself, dipsticks can be difficult to obtain the correct reading and the issue of thermal expansion still applies; if you do not know the fluid temp, the dipstick is not entirely accurate either. Setting the fluid level at a specific temp with a fill/check plug does allow for a more precise fluid level adjustment.


Well it may be more accurate, but if I were to follow the Toyota system for checking the level, it would entail getting the ATF at the proper temp by using a computer to ensure it and not an infrared tool which measures the outside temp, all in all a very burdensome procedure that requires you to crawl under the car or put it on a lift. Not something that most people would do. The dipstick had two settings hot-cold and in between so it was easy to see.

 

[dubber09]

Originally Posted by Dave1027
Just drain it then fill cold with engine off till it runs out the fill hole. Then start the engine and continue filling. Idle engine till the transmission is at proper temperature and fluid is dribbling out the fill hole then cap it. No need to try to figure out how much came out. You are making the process harder than it is.


1) not all transmission fill ports are also level check ports
2) simply idling the car and even going thru gears on AT won't warm it up to operating temp

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by benjy
say what your working on, theres always a recommended procedure for every different vehicle that can be done correctly at home!!



It's a 2016 Ford Escape with the 2.5 Duratec and the 6F35 A/T.....I drained the FF at 16K (COLD) and refilled with Castrol Full Syn. which claims to be Mercon LV approved... I also added 10 oz. of LG Red ...it's shift's great and I'm planning on doing it again at approx. 40K....hence my question in the OP....

 

[EA82]

Just keep doing what you've been doing, overfilling or underfilling by a tiny bit isn't going to make a difference. Some people make it sound catastrophic.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by Pelican
Well it may be more accurate, but if I were to follow the Toyota system for checking the level, it would entail getting the ATF at the proper temp by using a computer to ensure it and not an infrared tool which measures the outside temp, all in all a very burdensome procedure that requires you to crawl under the car or put it on a lift. Not something that most people would do. The dipstick had two settings hot-cold and in between so it was easy to see.

Not denying that the no dipstick method is more work. But this goes back to the issue of what is defined as "cold" and what it defined as "hot." The dipstick certainly makes the fluid level adjustment a bit easier but the same rules apply for inspecting the fluid while it is in the correct temperature range.

 

[Revving2Redline]

That's funny. I needed that laugh!

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by pbm
I've had good luck changing the ATF on both my (sold) 2011 Chevy Cruze and my 2016 Ford Escape by draining the fluid COLD
and measuring what came out and refilling the same amount. I know that ATF expands when HOT and measuring the COLD amount will
guarantee the same amount is replaced (even though it doesn't mean that amount is correct if the fluid was low to begin with).

My question is...If I drain the fluid HOT and allow it to sit overnight (become COLD) before measuring the amount....will I get the measurement correct as if I drained it COLD? I always prefer draining fluids that are warm or hot to get more debris out.....Thoughts?


I think that you'd get the same results! The ONLY reason for measuring the amount in the transmission when hot is to account for expansion so that one doesn't overfill.
I find these dipstick-less transmissions to be a BIG PITA


You got that right !