Champion Lab's Ecore design

[Mr Nice]

Filterguy,

You seem to know alot about Champion Labs oil filters....do you work for them?? Why would Champion Labs spend 10-50 million dollars to engineer the 'Ecore' when they already had a decent filter design ?? (Delco, STP, Bosch, private label). Thanks for your insight and knowledge.

 

[Filter guy]

Well i've explained who I am before. I used to work for Champion Labs. Spent 18 years there. Still know all the important people.

As to why Champion Labs would do this... the future...is your answer.

As you say they already had plenty of production capacity for metal end cap filters. As do other filter manufacturers.

So there must be another reason, eh.

 

[labman]

I guess I am safe from new ideas for at least another 3 months. The ST 3950 I put on my truck Thursday was still the old metal center tube, and the Pennzoil 5w30 was marked ''Meets SL''. I hardly regard the 5w30 or the cartridge filter for my Ecotec as new ideas in 05.

I will be buying a couple of new tires next fall, but I doubt either the radical, new Michelins or the all poly urethane tire will commonly be available. Likely go with Kumbos from Tire Rack. I want good wet traction, ride, low noise, and low price.

I have seen the Ecore and canister oil filters as being about cost from the beginning, perhaps with a little environmental pressure to consume less metal. We haven't credited Fram for their environmental stewardship, less metal and fewer trees going into their filters. I rolled my eyes a bit on the Ecore ''easier to separate materials'' and concern with metal filings in the center tubes. What happens to old oil filters now? I am sure many go to the land fill, oil, metal, and all. Maybe the ones from my 66 TR-4 are still preserved in one. Lube owner, can you help? If recycled, is the steel melted down burning off the paper, plastic, rubber, and oil? In the future, will the filter be dismantled, the base plate and inter plastic tube salvaged for reuse?

 

[lubeowner]

Labman,

We recycle all of our filters. We pay about $70 to have each 55 gallon drum of filters hauled away. They are melted down and made into steel I-beams for construction. Oil filters in most states can legally be drained out and thrown in a landfill. In fact there are still many shops out there that dispose of all their filters this way. I think in the future states will pass laws against disposing of filters in the garbage.

As for the cartridge type filters used on most European vehicles and now some domestics, I think it is a function of environmental awareness but most likely due to lack of cheap raw materials. In the US we have been graced with readily available ore to make steel at a low cost. From what I have heard Europe does not have the raw material resources to "waste" good metal building oil filters, therefore the cartridge filter. As steel prices and environmental awareness increases I think the spin on filter will gradually be replaced. Just look at what GM is doing on its smaller powerplants, cartridge filters. If this is not true someone correct me, as I said this is what I have heard and not gospel.

 

[TallPaul]

Here is a good reason not to use an Ecore filter: Article on Collapsed Center Tubes in Oil Filters.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Here is a good reason not to use an Ecore filter:

---

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Here is a good reason not to use an Ecore filter: Article on Collapsed Center Tubes in Oil Filters.

---

So you take an article on collapsed center tubes, which is a reprint of a Technical Bulletin from the Filter Manufacturers Council ( the same organization 427Z06 thinks is a waste, yet he applauds this bulletin..lol). This bulletin has been around since the 1970's. As someone who was on this particular committee and helped write two of the bulletins that they have, I see no correlation between E-core and the bulletin that you reference.

Champ is not having collapsed center tube problems with E-core. So I don't see the point. Other than the E-core is different = bad.

Do you really think a filter company would release a new design without extensive lab and field tests? Not to mention the actual amount of product sold under various brands being out in the market now as futher proof the design works as expected.


Labman:
You can also contact the Filter Manufacturers Council for specific oil filter disposal regulation for the area you live in, if you want to dispose of your own filter. They will give you the Federal, State, and local rules.
www.filtercouncil.org

 

[edwardh1]

Posted above
Do you really think a filter company would release a new design without extensive lab and field tests? Not to mention the actual amount of product sold under various brands being out in the market now as futher proof the design works as expected.
+++++++++++++
lots of things do not work out and are not well thought out
just cause its for sale and new does not mean its better

 

[ZR2RANDO]

Yeah, you been reading about the pharmaceutical industry lately, they are in the news every day.
I agree with the above, not that it should be this way but the customer is one of the most valuable testers that most mfgrs have...

 

[labman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Here is a good reason not to use an Ecore filter: Article on Collapsed Center Tubes in Oil Filters.

---

I think it was 6 months ago the last time this nonsense came up. I reported back then flattening a steel inner tube by clamping it in a vice with the plastic inner tube from an Ecore like filter element out of my Ecotec. That might not be a realistic test. Today I tried a screw style radiator clamp on one of each. The plastic tube slowly gave with quite a bit of effort. It sprang back when I remove the clamp. The seam of the steel tube easily gave, leaving the steel tube deformed.

Let's make our decision on facts, not speculation. If you want to speculate, do the new cartridge elements use plastic tubes to avoid past problems with flimsy steel ones?

And yes Lubeowner, my 02 Chevy 2.2 L has a cartridge filter.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

Pine trees and oak trees huh?

 

[TallPaul]

I suppose the collapsing filter center tube article was not the most relevant post. If the bypass and the relief valves both jam shut it will probably kill any filter, but there are lesser conditions that a metal center tube will resist and looking inside the Ecore FL1A type, I saw just a bare cage of several rings of plastic with huge gaps between of raw filter element. It is hard to imagine, unless the paper is wire reinforced, how that can be as sturdy as the metal.

As for the metal center tube rupturing at the seam, good point. That is worth some research and probably some are designed to ensure that seam is as strong as the rest of the tube.

 

[labman]

Copied from my response 25 October 2004 to somebody else that insisted flimsy metal tubes had to be stronger than untested plastic. See http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001890;p=2#000048

Do you have one iota of proof or any facts to back up your opinion? Perhaps you have an Instron in your garage? The cartridge filters with the plastic cage and end caps have been around for a while including Saab and some other upmarket cars. I have found similar construction in such high rated filters as Hastings LF548 and WIX 57082. I haven't looked at the ST 9018 that carefully, but all the other brands have been about the same. I am running a Purolator now because I am finding them cheaper than the ST or other brands. Filter failures are rare, but still, I haven't seen a single report here of the new plastic cage and endcaps failing. I just don't see the flimsy, thin metal inner tubes as being much stronger. Before I would condemn the new style smaller on the outside filters, I would cut some open and measure the filter media as compared to the old style. I am not a big fan of metal valves either. Most metal to metal seals leak.

 

[Filter guy]

Let's put this another way with respect to metal center tubes or the E-core design.

The automotive specification to collapse a center tube is that the filter must be able to withstand a minimum of 100psid.

Second..if Champs E-core design DIDN'T meet or exceed this specification don't you think Champs competitors would make hay with their own brochures or bulletins stating the facts that in their testing the E-core did not meet specs?

Caterpillar did it against Fleetguard. Fleetguard has done it against Baldwin. There are filter companies or OEM's which will send out their own information on product they deem do not meet specs.( in both these cases, changes were made to put the filters within specs)

I would guarante you that Champs competitors have tested the E-core design. Cut it open. Verified the information of Champs brochure for performance. Tried to figure out how they would manufacture their own version, etc....

 

[Bamaro]

Just curious, I noticed the last Super Tech filter I bought (last week) was stamped Made in Mexico. Is this new?

 

[labman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bamaro:
Just curious, I noticed the last Super Tech filter I bought (last week) was stamped Made in Mexico. Is this new?

---

Some of them have been/were for a while. Last ST 3950 I bought said ''Hecho de EUA'' on it. I replaced a Purlator L 15436 made in Thailand with an American made one last week.

 

[Filter guy]

Champ does have a plant in Mexico. Run by an American plant manager from their Illinois plant.

Some Super Tech filters ( and other Champ private label brands ) can be made there.

None of the E-core is made in Mexico.

Less than 20% of production is allowed back into the USA per contract.

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

This may be old news to many, but the Super Tech ST3675 filters are now the e-core design. I checked because they cross-reference to the AC Delco PF59 that fits GM's 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0. The Delco filter, so far, has an anti-drainback valve but no bypass, as opposed to the e-core's ADBV/bypass flap.