im going to do a front brake job on the s2000 soon. should i go with organic, semi-metallic, or ceramic pads? what are the pros and cons of each?
ceramic vs semi-metallic.
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Ceramic is a marketing buzzword. May be only one percent.
Look at the letters on the pads. You'll likely want a nice semi metallic for bite and fade resistance.
Probably be hard to beat the factory pads, but I have found Stoptech's formula to be a great one.
Look at the letters on the pads. You'll likely want a nice semi metallic for bite and fade resistance.
Probably be hard to beat the factory pads, but I have found Stoptech's formula to be a great one.
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I use Stoptech pads on my Honda's with excellent results.
Check what pads came OEM on your car. Don't change from semi-metallic to ceramic unless you want: little or no dust AND worse stopping.
I had GM Ceramic (replacement) pads on my Corvette, they warped my rotors and stopped poorly.
HAWK HPS are great pads and don't dust too bad.
I had GM Ceramic (replacement) pads on my Corvette, they warped my rotors and stopped poorly.
HAWK HPS are great pads and don't dust too bad.
But would someone like Akebono or Wagner play marketing games saying they were ceramic when all they did was to have a fairy toss in a little ceramic fairy dust?
I have satisfied brakes pro ceramics on my Taurus and the dust is much less and lighter in color but the stopping power has decreased slightly. I think I'm going back to semi metallic for the bite next time, either ebc or hawk from my research. You will need to clean more black dust off with the semi metallic though m
That's like asking which is better: a dark beer or a light beer. The answer is that it depends on the individual beer.
Generally speaking, the OE pad from the factory is the best option for most drivers.
Generally speaking, the OE pad from the factory is the best option for most drivers.
donnyj08,
The differences all depend on how you drive and brake. And how much extra braking power you desire in your vehicle more often than not! Being an S2000, you may want to stay with the more aggressive friction material such as what came on the S2000(OE).
If you like the OE brakes/braking, then stay with that unless you desire even more aggressive braking. Deside too, what are you willing to give up. For example, some brands of HP brakes suck when cold(the first couple of stops). I don't like'em in city type driving(bumper-to-bumper) when the car has been sitting too long and the brakes have cooled down. Or that first hard unexpected stop after just starting out on the road. And, the dust and noise(brand dependent) may be more than you're willing to put up with.
I do realize that the term "Ceramic" can be misleading!
When I have changed over from original equipment(OE) semi-metallic to after market(AM) ceramic, I never noticed any difference in "NORMAL" braking regardless of the brand of ceramic pads that I have used. And, as I never really had any baseline to judge in an emergency stops or repeated hard braking, I can't make any comparison between the two in that area.
I can only answer for my driving style and climate!
What I do know is, that I like ceramic brake pads for everyday use from the first stop of the morning to the last stop of the evening, in witer/summer, city/hiwy driving, rain/snow-ice/sunny days, even through the mountains of NY, PA, VA, WVA, SC etc. on long 10-15 hour drives as well as an 10-15 minute drive.
I like the consistency of the pedal feel, the low dusting and lack of noises that I have often experienced with other pad materials. Nor did I like the lack of cold braking(til warm) with a HP friction material.
IMHO, ceramic pads are more rotor friendly, at least for me!
WHEN I have had to stop hard or harder in many situations while using ceramic pads and they always did just fine! I have always felt secure and my wife and daughter have never complained about lack of braking in any situation or brake noise(s) in any of our vehicles...or anything really!
The differences all depend on how you drive and brake. And how much extra braking power you desire in your vehicle more often than not! Being an S2000, you may want to stay with the more aggressive friction material such as what came on the S2000(OE).
If you like the OE brakes/braking, then stay with that unless you desire even more aggressive braking. Deside too, what are you willing to give up. For example, some brands of HP brakes suck when cold(the first couple of stops). I don't like'em in city type driving(bumper-to-bumper) when the car has been sitting too long and the brakes have cooled down. Or that first hard unexpected stop after just starting out on the road. And, the dust and noise(brand dependent) may be more than you're willing to put up with.
I do realize that the term "Ceramic" can be misleading!
When I have changed over from original equipment(OE) semi-metallic to after market(AM) ceramic, I never noticed any difference in "NORMAL" braking regardless of the brand of ceramic pads that I have used. And, as I never really had any baseline to judge in an emergency stops or repeated hard braking, I can't make any comparison between the two in that area.
I can only answer for my driving style and climate!
What I do know is, that I like ceramic brake pads for everyday use from the first stop of the morning to the last stop of the evening, in witer/summer, city/hiwy driving, rain/snow-ice/sunny days, even through the mountains of NY, PA, VA, WVA, SC etc. on long 10-15 hour drives as well as an 10-15 minute drive.
I like the consistency of the pedal feel, the low dusting and lack of noises that I have often experienced with other pad materials. Nor did I like the lack of cold braking(til warm) with a HP friction material.
IMHO, ceramic pads are more rotor friendly, at least for me!
WHEN I have had to stop hard or harder in many situations while using ceramic pads and they always did just fine! I have always felt secure and my wife and daughter have never complained about lack of braking in any situation or brake noise(s) in any of our vehicles...or anything really!
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While I agree that the factory pads are fine for everyday driving, and they really are in my opinion, not so in the case of my GF's '08 IS250. It came from the factory with the OE Textar pads, entirely too grabby imo (If I recall correctly, the pads were stamped with an FF friction rating), and tons of [unnecessary] dust. Lexus did issue a TSIB pad that dusted less but offered a little less bite and I believe is now standard issue on the IS.
I put on Akebono ProACT pads and these are just about perfect for the IS250, not grabby like the OE Textars but still has good bite (aside, the IS250 has some of the best feeling brakes I've felt in quite some time for a factory 'regular' braking system), great modulation and expected dust levels for how they feel. I like the Bendix CT-3 on my Mazda6, much better bite than the Mazda pads. For my future pad choices, they'd be Akebono ProACT, Bendix CT-3 and the Raybestos AT pads depending on availability on the application, with the Akebono being my first choice. None of these pads I'd necessarily consider to be 'high-performance' pads, as I believe no pad is truly dual-purpose (sans perhaps Hawk HP+ and StopTech pads at the minimum). If you're going to race your car, auto-x, HPDE etc., take the time to swap out and use a pad that's designed for that type of driving; Carbotech and Cobalt Friction make some great friction formulations in my opinion.
To more directly answer the OP's question, my brother-in-law has the Bendix CT-3 pads on his AP1 S2000 and likes them more overall than the factory Honda pads, less dust and smoother in his words.
I put on Akebono ProACT pads and these are just about perfect for the IS250, not grabby like the OE Textars but still has good bite (aside, the IS250 has some of the best feeling brakes I've felt in quite some time for a factory 'regular' braking system), great modulation and expected dust levels for how they feel. I like the Bendix CT-3 on my Mazda6, much better bite than the Mazda pads. For my future pad choices, they'd be Akebono ProACT, Bendix CT-3 and the Raybestos AT pads depending on availability on the application, with the Akebono being my first choice. None of these pads I'd necessarily consider to be 'high-performance' pads, as I believe no pad is truly dual-purpose (sans perhaps Hawk HP+ and StopTech pads at the minimum). If you're going to race your car, auto-x, HPDE etc., take the time to swap out and use a pad that's designed for that type of driving; Carbotech and Cobalt Friction make some great friction formulations in my opinion.
To more directly answer the OP's question, my brother-in-law has the Bendix CT-3 pads on his AP1 S2000 and likes them more overall than the factory Honda pads, less dust and smoother in his words.
Yeah, my stock pads on Fiat and BMW dust like crazy especially front ones. If I change them it will be akebono ceramic. I had almoust no dust on w140 and it stopped fine, just need to press brakes earlier and harded on that heavy beast anyway, takes time to get used.
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There's a lot of overlap.
I've used Axxis/PBR Ultimate which is a "ceramic" but brakes better than a lot of semi-metallic I've used before, and it dust and squeal worse than a lot of "semi metallic" too.
I've used Axxis/PBR Ultimate which is a "ceramic" but brakes better than a lot of semi-metallic I've used before, and it dust and squeal worse than a lot of "semi metallic" too.
I recently replaced the pads and rotors on my 2004 Monte Carlo SS. I used ceramic AC-Delco pads and Delco Professional series rotors. I'm not sure what kind of pads this car came with originally because during my research I got conflicting info of what the stock pads were made of.
The brakes now work very well with no noise. The pads I replaced were making noise on stops even though none of the pads were down to the wear indicators.
The car has 99,000 miles on it so I doubt it had the factory pads still on it but they did not leave any dust on my wheels. This is the first time I have used Ceramics so I'm not sure how I will like them long term. So far, I do like them.
The brakes now work very well with no noise. The pads I replaced were making noise on stops even though none of the pads were down to the wear indicators.
The car has 99,000 miles on it so I doubt it had the factory pads still on it but they did not leave any dust on my wheels. This is the first time I have used Ceramics so I'm not sure how I will like them long term. So far, I do like them.
I too have used Akebono Pro-Act on a Lexus RX. They seemed even more luxurious-like even compared to the OE setup while still having good bite without the grab. And were extremely quiet and strangely smooth...still with good bite!
Personaly, I haven't yet used a ceramic pad that I haven't liked
Personaly, I haven't yet used a ceramic pad that I haven't liked
I have always used Wagner TQ's with virtually NO dust!
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
im going to do a front brake job on the s2000 soon. should i go with organic, semi-metallic, or ceramic pads? what are the pros and cons of each?
Forget the labels. There is no agreed-upon industry definition as to what is (or is not) a ceramic pad. At this time, "ceramic" is a bit of a buzz-word, so if somebody on the factory floor drinks coffee out of a ceramic coffee mug, then the maker can call the pads made in that factory "ceramic pads."
What you need to know is the initial bite of the pads when cold, and the initial bite of the pads when warmed up; that will tell you the most about performance. Then, if you are interested in non-performance matters (dusting, rotor-friendliness, etc.), you have more questions to ask.
As my bias is that the ability to stop the car is the most important criterion of brake pads, I lean toward Stoptech Street Performance pads, but you may have different priorities.
im going to do a front brake job on the s2000 soon. should i go with organic, semi-metallic, or ceramic pads? what are the pros and cons of each?
Forget the labels. There is no agreed-upon industry definition as to what is (or is not) a ceramic pad. At this time, "ceramic" is a bit of a buzz-word, so if somebody on the factory floor drinks coffee out of a ceramic coffee mug, then the maker can call the pads made in that factory "ceramic pads."
What you need to know is the initial bite of the pads when cold, and the initial bite of the pads when warmed up; that will tell you the most about performance. Then, if you are interested in non-performance matters (dusting, rotor-friendliness, etc.), you have more questions to ask.
As my bias is that the ability to stop the car is the most important criterion of brake pads, I lean toward Stoptech Street Performance pads, but you may have different priorities.
As others have noted, you need to look at the performance of a specific pad brand and model, not classify them based on "ceramic" or "not ceramic."
Just one example,
Some -and possible many- Bendix CT-3 pads are GG rated, which is a higher friction rating than many semi-metallic pads.
Just one example,
Some -and possible many- Bendix CT-3 pads are GG rated, which is a higher friction rating than many semi-metallic pads.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
As others have noted, you need to look at the performance of a specific pad brand and model, not classify them based on "ceramic" or "not ceramic."
Just one example,
Some -and possible many- Bendix CT-3 pads are GG rated, which is a higher friction rating than many semi-metallic pads.
Are Bendix CT-3 a ceramic pad? I put them on my neices Corolla only because she bought them for me to put on. I didn't look at the box as much as I did the fitment for her car.
As others have noted, you need to look at the performance of a specific pad brand and model, not classify them based on "ceramic" or "not ceramic."
Just one example,
Some -and possible many- Bendix CT-3 pads are GG rated, which is a higher friction rating than many semi-metallic pads.
Are Bendix CT-3 a ceramic pad? I put them on my neices Corolla only because she bought them for me to put on. I didn't look at the box as much as I did the fitment for her car.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Are Bendix CT-3 a ceramic pad? I put them on my neices Corolla only because she bought them for me to put on. I didn't look at the box as much as I did the fitment for her car.
Yes, they are advertised as ceramic.
http://www.bendixbrakes.com/products/frictionPremium.php
Quote:
Utilizing our OE experience, research and development efforts, Bendix® has taken aftermarket ceramic brake technology even higher. Specifically formulated for medium and heavy vehicle applications, while at the same time offering superior performance on light vehicle applications.
Are Bendix CT-3 a ceramic pad? I put them on my neices Corolla only because she bought them for me to put on. I didn't look at the box as much as I did the fitment for her car.
Yes, they are advertised as ceramic.
http://www.bendixbrakes.com/products/frictionPremium.php
Quote:
Utilizing our OE experience, research and development efforts, Bendix® has taken aftermarket ceramic brake technology even higher. Specifically formulated for medium and heavy vehicle applications, while at the same time offering superior performance on light vehicle applications.
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