Castrol GTX 15w50 Zddp content?

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Thank you Bimmerfan and Shannow for hijacking this thread haha

You should thank them. The VR1 20w-50 seems a pretty good option, so you have some good options, now the thread can keep living.

 

[bobbydavro]

GTX 15W-40 is ideal for this application. I agree 10W-60 isn't really ideal for such an old engine however some assumptions about base oil content are very wrong above.

Also Shellvis VI has very good KO performance if you use the right one!

 

[Joe90_guy]

Here in the UK, we have what we call the 'Nutter On The Bus' syndrome. If you find yourself on the bus when there is a Nutter On The Bus, I'm told the best thing to do is say nothing, look out of the window, don't under any circumstances try to reason with the Nutter On The Bus and wait patiently until he gets off...

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Originally Posted By: SR5
The best oil for a sewing machine is an ILSAC 5W-20


Your granny's sewing machine won't live long...But its cat converters would be happy...


Yes my granny has a cat, and a small dog. It should be OK.

 

[Joe90_guy]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
GTX 15W-40 is ideal for this application. I agree 10W-60 isn't really ideal for such an old engine however some assumptions about base oil content are very wrong above.

Also Shellvis VI has very good KO performance if you use the right one!


I think that's what I said. Did you mean HTHS performance by any chance?

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
GTX 15W-40 is ideal for this application. I agree 10W-60 isn't really ideal for such an old engine however some assumptions about base oil content are very wrong above.

With the GTX 15W-50 ( ~ 950 ppm Zn & TBN >= 8) being 24 Euro for 5 Litres and the VR-1 20W-50 is 33 Euro ( 1300 ppm Zn & TBN = 12) I would find both acceptable.

But in reality, the Capri - cool as it is, is not a modified high output car, and it's only doing about 2000 miles per year.

I would save some money and use the GTX, it's better and cheaper than that HX3 you are using now. I'm sure it will do the job fine. Yes, you could extend the OCI on the VR-1 because of it's high TBN, but that's your call.

Hard to walk past the GTX at that price. I would try it at least once to see how it runs in your car.

BTW in Oz we only have one Edge 10W-60, and talking to a Castrol tech over the phone, it no longer contains Esters ( and hasn't for awhile) and it's now PAO & Group 3 based.

 

[Joe90_guy]

Just checked Amazon UK again and ...

GTX 15W40 (Semi-synthetic) - £17.49 for 4 litres

Couldn't find GTX 15W50 on either Amazon or EBay???

Probably nothing much wrong with putting 15W40 in the Capri but I'd still go 20W50 (a) because it's closer to the originally specced oil and (b) you'll get better wear performance with the 20W50 [I'm sort of assuming with such an old car, wear is your priority]. Please don't go 15W50...

 

[Joe90_guy]

SR5,

Regarding Ozzie Edge 10W60 being PAO/Group III based with no ester, that sort of figures. It's what I'd use.

I go back to what I said before about this oil being an extrapolation from a 0W40 program (some derivation of Infineum's P6000-series gunk??) rather than being a 'stand-alone' thing. Big extrapolations, even ones within the codes, always bother me. You think you're getting one thing but you don't really know for sure.

I did rather get the impression from the Douglas Hillary thread however that TWS did still contain ester? If it does, all I can say is yuk but as oils go, it's an irrelevance and not worth arguing about.

 

[bobbydavro]

No 0W-40 link at all

 

[FCD]

Don't worry about the HX3 , I'm changing it in 2 or 3 months which means it will have spent less than a year in my engine, after that i'll probably feed it a steady diet of VR1, I would also have had immediately bought GTX Being so cheap but the things i've read online about it containing no more than 6 or 800ppm of zddp and the fact that if you email Castrol they will tell you they don't reccomend any of their GTX products to be used in flat tappet engines!

 

[Popsy]

Very interesting thread, a great read.

I'm surprised noone bring the Motul 300V 15W50 (or 20W60) on the table. Price wise, it is not a good choice but I'd be curious about Joe90_guy opinion on it.

 

[Jetronic]

it's ester based.... I can guess what he thinks of it...

Esters are great within their limitations. They're good for frictio modification in the mixed lubrication regime, but can't be relied upon in the boundary lubrication regime as anti-wear agents. Especially since the physisorption on the surface to be protected is dependant on the materials used, the oxidation levels, the temperature and the molecular weight of the esters in question. Van Der Waals forces are holding the esters onto the surface so they can only withstand light loads, beyond which they're just like any other oil.

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Man, are you kidding?...Please. dont tell me you don't know of any...My cousin's Kawasaky Ninja goes to 22 000rpms and catches 160 km/h in first gear... Oil isn't just oil, high performance bikes' engines are the best test for an engine oil, their oils are really high performance, no car can put so much stress on an oil as a race bike XD


No, it doesn't*. 'Ninja' isn't a specific model name but more a legend used by Kawasaki on numerous bikes. If it can do 160km/h in first gear I'm assuming it is a ZX10R, or maybe an optimistic ZX6R. These get nowhere near 22,000 rpm and nor do any others. Yamaha got in trouble a few years ago when it claimed their R6 reached 17,000 rpm (the fastest in production) but it was found that they actually didn't go that fast and they had to reduce the claim.

*...unless it is heavily modified from standard.

This blind repetition of exaggerated claims gives little confidence in other statements which also appear to be based not on knowledge but hearsay or optimism.

 

[Jetronic]

my 1990 Bandit has a 13,000 rpm redline. That was high at the time, but it's of course 25 years ago. Never tried to go higher but did go over 12,000 rpmregularly.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
my 1990 Bandit has a 13,000 rpm redline. That was high at the time, but it's of course 25 years ago. Never tried to go higher but did go over 12,000 rpmregularly.


I went to University with a guy who raced for Kawasaki and had a HEAVILY modified "600 Ninja" full of $$$$$ titanium parts that was actually his track bike in street drag with an 18,000RPM redline - a gift to him from the Kawy race team for going away to school.

The current ZX-6R Ninja makes maximum power at 13,500RPM.

 

[FCD]

Originally Posted By: Popsy
Very interesting thread, a great read.

I'm surprised noone bring the Motul 300V 15W50 (or 20W60) on the table. Price wise, it is not a good choice but I'd be curious about Joe90_guy opinion on it.

I would love giving Motul 300v a try but the problem is they cost lots of $$$

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Just checked Amazon UK again and ...

GTX 15W40 (Semi-synthetic) - £17.49 for 4 litres

Couldn't find GTX 15W50 on either Amazon or EBay???

Probably nothing much wrong with putting 15W40 in the Capri but I'd still go 20W50 (a) because it's closer to the originally specced oil and (b) you'll get better wear performance with the 20W50 [I'm sort of assuming with such an old car, wear is your priority]. Please don't go 15W50...


In Oz our GTX 15W-50 is a High Mileage oil with No A3/B3 rating and a lower Sulphated Ash than the Euro oil (according to Castrol spec sheets). Sounds like we get ripped off with a "lite" version. Our GTX 15W-40 is a mineral (which is A3/B3 this time) not a semi-synthetic like in Europe. It's a good deal when on sale here though, $20- for 5L of mineral GTX 15W-40 and a oil filter. (about 13.50 Euro)

But thinking back about some points raised in this thread, and only talking about mineral oils, I assume the 20W-50 would have a lower VII load and lower Noack than the 15W-50. So I can see why Shannow and Joe90 vote for the 20W-50.

Great thread. Thanks everybody.

From memory, I think FCD did try a 40 weight oil once, but it didn't work well for him, and so prefers a heavier oil.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted By: Popsy
Very interesting thread, a great read.

I'm surprised noone bring the Motul 300V 15W50 (or 20W60) on the table. Price wise, it is not a good choice but I'd be curious about Joe90_guy opinion on it.

I would love giving Motul 300v a try but the problem is they cost lots of $$$


Isn't Motul 300V an ester based oil ?

 

[alcyon]

Originally Posted By: SR5

But thinking back about some points raised in this thread, and only talking about mineral oils, I assume the 20W-50 would have a lower VII load and lower Noack than the 15W-50. So I can see why Shannow and Joe90 vote for the 20W-50.

Great thread. Thanks everybody.

From memory, I think FCD did try a 40 weight oil once, but it didn't work well for him, and so prefers a heavier oil.

20W-50 have a propensity to form varnish and sludge quickly in hot humid environments. I had no such issues with 5W-40, or 10W-40.

 

[Joe90_guy]

Originally Posted By: alcyon
Originally Posted By: SR5

But thinking back about some points raised in this thread, and only talking about mineral oils, I assume the 20W-50 would have a lower VII load and lower Noack than the 15W-50. So I can see why Shannow and Joe90 vote for the 20W-50.

Great thread. Thanks everybody.

From memory, I think FCD did try a 40 weight oil once, but it didn't work well for him, and so prefers a heavier oil.

20W-50 have a propensity to form varnish and sludge quickly in hot humid environments. I had no such issues with 5W-40, or 10W-40.



If you compare a mineral Group I 20W50 with a semi-synthetic Group I/Group III 10W40 and a full synthetic Group III/Group IV, then yes, the 20W50 probably does have greater propensity to form varnish and drop out sludge in any climatic conditions.

However in your part of the world, most cheap oils have been moved away from Group I to Group II base oils simply because Group IIs are both cheaper and more widely, commercially available. Group II's don't possess the high VI of Group III and Group IV base oils but they are far more oxidatively stable. This means they have a far lower tendency to form deposits in real life conditions.