Castrol Edge 0W-40 lost LL-01?
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OVERKILL
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Originally Posted by GJM120
I've focused on the statement "Additional N20 performance.... is needed" as maybe the reason the Edge lost LL01.
Doubtful, particularly not if a cookie cutter ad pack, as Gokhan noted, can make a pass. It's more likely it just isn't being pursued during formula changes as the market for it shrinks.
I've focused on the statement "Additional N20 performance.... is needed" as maybe the reason the Edge lost LL01.
Doubtful, particularly not if a cookie cutter ad pack, as Gokhan noted, can make a pass. It's more likely it just isn't being pursued during formula changes as the market for it shrinks.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by GJM120
I've focused on the statement "Additional N20 performance.... is needed" as maybe the reason the Edge lost LL01.
Doubtful, particularly not if a cookie cutter ad pack, as Gokhan noted, can make a pass. It's more likely it just isn't being pursued during formula changes as the market for it shrinks.
Highly doubt. LL01 is still approved for all BMW engines, and Castrol still has 5W30 and 5W40 oil that went through LL01 update.
Originally Posted by GJM120
I've focused on the statement "Additional N20 performance.... is needed" as maybe the reason the Edge lost LL01.
Doubtful, particularly not if a cookie cutter ad pack, as Gokhan noted, can make a pass. It's more likely it just isn't being pursued during formula changes as the market for it shrinks.
Highly doubt. LL01 is still approved for all BMW engines, and Castrol still has 5W30 and 5W40 oil that went through LL01 update.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by GJM120
I've focused on the statement "Additional N20 performance.... is needed" as maybe the reason the Edge lost LL01.
Doubtful, particularly not if a cookie cutter ad pack, as Gokhan noted, can make a pass. It's more likely it just isn't being pursued during formula changes as the market for it shrinks.
Highly doubt. LL01 is still approved for all BMW engines, and Castrol still has 5W30 and 5W40 oil that went through LL01 update.
But are those modern formulas? There are plenty of pretty generic lubes out there that have it.
Regarding LL-01 still being approved, but is that what the dealers and service centres are using? If I put a few BMW's into the Mobil oil selector, I don't get recommendations for LL-01, but rather:
2019 330i: Long-Life-14FE+
2018 320i: Long-Life-14FE+
2017 340i: Long-Life-14FE+
2016 550i: Long-Life-01FE
2015 435i: Long-Life-01FE
2014 335i: Long-Life-01FE
2013 320i: Long-Life-01FE
2012 535i: Long-Life-01FE
2011 328i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
2010 335i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
2009 135i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
That's a decade of cars
While I can see that it's recommended as an option for 2011 and older, seems everything newer the FE version is recommended and everything in the last three years it's the 14FE+ one. I'm not saying it isn't a valid option, but it doesn't seem to be the direction people are being pointed, which certainly supports what appears to be a lack of interest in continuing to pursue the approval for their flagship (at least in Mobil's case) Euro oils.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by GJM120
I've focused on the statement "Additional N20 performance.... is needed" as maybe the reason the Edge lost LL01.
Doubtful, particularly not if a cookie cutter ad pack, as Gokhan noted, can make a pass. It's more likely it just isn't being pursued during formula changes as the market for it shrinks.
Highly doubt. LL01 is still approved for all BMW engines, and Castrol still has 5W30 and 5W40 oil that went through LL01 update.
But are those modern formulas? There are plenty of pretty generic lubes out there that have it.
Regarding LL-01 still being approved, but is that what the dealers and service centres are using? If I put a few BMW's into the Mobil oil selector, I don't get recommendations for LL-01, but rather:
2019 330i: Long-Life-14FE+
2018 320i: Long-Life-14FE+
2017 340i: Long-Life-14FE+
2016 550i: Long-Life-01FE
2015 435i: Long-Life-01FE
2014 335i: Long-Life-01FE
2013 320i: Long-Life-01FE
2012 535i: Long-Life-01FE
2011 328i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
2010 335i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
2009 135i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
That's a decade of cars
While I can see that it's recommended as an option for 2011 and older, seems everything newer the FE version is recommended and everything in the last three years it's the 14FE+ one. I'm not saying it isn't a valid option, but it doesn't seem to be the direction people are being pointed, which certainly supports what appears to be a lack of interest in continuing to pursue the approval for their flagship (at least in Mobil's case) Euro oils.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted by M1256
So is the newest formula, if it was reformulated not having the LL-01 approval anymore, Castrol 0w40 still ok to use in my 2014 BMW X1 with a N20 engine? I usually run one year, 5,000 mile oil changes.
I expect it would be fine, and with no warranty left, not really much of a concern.
So is the newest formula, if it was reformulated not having the LL-01 approval anymore, Castrol 0w40 still ok to use in my 2014 BMW X1 with a N20 engine? I usually run one year, 5,000 mile oil changes.
I expect it would be fine, and with no warranty left, not really much of a concern.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by GJM120
I've focused on the statement "Additional N20 performance.... is needed" as maybe the reason the Edge lost LL01.
Doubtful, particularly not if a cookie cutter ad pack, as Gokhan noted, can make a pass. It's more likely it just isn't being pursued during formula changes as the market for it shrinks.
Highly doubt. LL01 is still approved for all BMW engines, and Castrol still has 5W30 and 5W40 oil that went through LL01 update.
But are those modern formulas? There are plenty of pretty generic lubes out there that have it.
Regarding LL-01 still being approved, but is that what the dealers and service centres are using? If I put a few BMW's into the Mobil oil selector, I don't get recommendations for LL-01, but rather:
2019 330i: Long-Life-14FE+
2018 320i: Long-Life-14FE+
2017 340i: Long-Life-14FE+
2016 550i: Long-Life-01FE
2015 435i: Long-Life-01FE
2014 335i: Long-Life-01FE
2013 320i: Long-Life-01FE
2012 535i: Long-Life-01FE
2011 328i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
2010 335i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
2009 135i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
That's a decade of cars
While I can see that it's recommended as an option for 2011 and older, seems everything newer the FE version is recommended and everything in the last three years it's the 14FE+ one. I'm not saying it isn't a valid option, but it doesn't seem to be the direction people are being pointed, which certainly supports what appears to be a lack of interest in continuing to pursue the approval for their flagship (at least in Mobil's case) Euro oils.
Yes, my local dealer uses LL01 TPT. Actually hen I was buying TPT in parts section, lady gave me 8 liters of TPT, differential fluid and TC fluid in box that had 0W30 LL01FE on it. I told her: please, I do not want LL)1FE that 0W30, she said: do not worry, it is just the box. We actually do not use it that often in service too.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by GJM120
I've focused on the statement "Additional N20 performance.... is needed" as maybe the reason the Edge lost LL01.
Doubtful, particularly not if a cookie cutter ad pack, as Gokhan noted, can make a pass. It's more likely it just isn't being pursued during formula changes as the market for it shrinks.
Highly doubt. LL01 is still approved for all BMW engines, and Castrol still has 5W30 and 5W40 oil that went through LL01 update.
But are those modern formulas? There are plenty of pretty generic lubes out there that have it.
Regarding LL-01 still being approved, but is that what the dealers and service centres are using? If I put a few BMW's into the Mobil oil selector, I don't get recommendations for LL-01, but rather:
2019 330i: Long-Life-14FE+
2018 320i: Long-Life-14FE+
2017 340i: Long-Life-14FE+
2016 550i: Long-Life-01FE
2015 435i: Long-Life-01FE
2014 335i: Long-Life-01FE
2013 320i: Long-Life-01FE
2012 535i: Long-Life-01FE
2011 328i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
2010 335i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
2009 135i: Long-Life-01FE or Long-Life-01
That's a decade of cars
While I can see that it's recommended as an option for 2011 and older, seems everything newer the FE version is recommended and everything in the last three years it's the 14FE+ one. I'm not saying it isn't a valid option, but it doesn't seem to be the direction people are being pointed, which certainly supports what appears to be a lack of interest in continuing to pursue the approval for their flagship (at least in Mobil's case) Euro oils.
Yes, my local dealer uses LL01 TPT. Actually hen I was buying TPT in parts section, lady gave me 8 liters of TPT, differential fluid and TC fluid in box that had 0W30 LL01FE on it. I told her: please, I do not want LL)1FE that 0W30, she said: do not worry, it is just the box. We actually do not use it that often in service too.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by M1256
So is the newest formula, if it was reformulated not having the LL-01 approval anymore, Castrol 0w40 still ok to use in my 2014 BMW X1 with a N20 engine? I usually run one year, 5,000 mile oil changes.
I expect it would be fine, and with no warranty left, not really much of a concern.
It will be fine like Overkill said. Take into consideration that Castrol 0W40 still has plethora of other approvals that are very stringent.
Originally Posted by M1256
So is the newest formula, if it was reformulated not having the LL-01 approval anymore, Castrol 0w40 still ok to use in my 2014 BMW X1 with a N20 engine? I usually run one year, 5,000 mile oil changes.
I expect it would be fine, and with no warranty left, not really much of a concern.
It will be fine like Overkill said. Take into consideration that Castrol 0W40 still has plethora of other approvals that are very stringent.
I was told BMW updated LL01 and all 0W-40 lost the rating. That with current technology 5W-40 is the widest spread that can pass.
Is this untrue?
Is this untrue?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
That sounds like wild speculation IMHO.
Does a current 0W-40 carry LL01?
I think BMW further limited already most stringent oxidation requirements. That is what I am sure of, but why 0W oils are eliminated, not sure. Castrol Edge 0W30 is not LL01 anymore.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The Ravenol SSL 0w-40 did, but appears, per edyvw and Trav, that the German website has been updated to show it now just "recommended for". The US site, which is likely out of date, shows it as still approved:
Since it's been the subject of a great deal of discussion and speculation, I'll throw in my opinion: I think it's dumb of BMW to revise LL-01. If it's a newer, more demanding (or just different) specification give it a new and unique designation. Case in point: my 1999 E39 originally specified the latest spec when it was manufactured - LL-98. Then around 2001 came a new specification and they called it LL-01. Now, they've revised LL-01 meaning that oils that would have been perfectly fine for an engine manufactured before the revision are no longer "approved". Like many others, I just look for the A40 spec or MB spec and call it a day (M1 euro or Edge euro for multiple reasons).
All specifications are constantly updated, both MB 229.5 and Porsche A40.
LL01 means that encompasses all previous gasoline engines. Same is with MB 229.5, Porsche A40. Porsche A40 is specification some 20 years old. Do you really think Porsche will keep same requirements for new engines?
Correct. Per Motul here's what happened with LL-01:
So, the oils that had the approval for the pre 2019 LL-01 still have it. They lost their certification for the +2019 LL-01, and not because Castrol and others lost interest in having this certification but because these oils cannot meet a new, more stringent standard. Apparently 0W-xx oils for some reason have a problem with the new LL-01 “oxidation stability, deposit control, and oil life”.
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I tend to agree. I don't think it would be difficult for BMW to get more granular with their approved specifications. It's like they are leaving those of us with older cars doing some guesswork as to whether the oil changed or BMW changed to criteria.
They should have called it LL-01.2 or something like that. It is interesting that almost no 0w's seem to pass the new testing.
In that case it would be more like LL-01.8.
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