Car Care Nut -Why you shouldn't wait 100k mi to change coolant on a Toyota UR series V8.

[D60]

You've completely missed my point - he is calling it a trend, with a single example of a 200,000 mile engine. That's not a trend, and at that age, a lot can happen, particularly if, as is true in this case, HE was the one maintaining it!

I did not say that this was not a big deal to the owner - I said that you cannot draw a trend from one vehicle with 200,000 miles on it.

By the way - I have one car, not truck, car, with over 302,000 miles on it - I guess I don't have your kind of money, then?

You might want to back off on your characterization above - I am as careful with my money as you are.

Where we don't see eye to eye is on the accuracy of his clickbait title. I think this is a bit of a wild claim.

He cites other examples.

That said, he also had a video claiming that an aftermarket filter fell apart and caused a 3.5 failure, but if you watched the whole thing there was zero conclusive evidence.

I don't have a problem with this head gasket video, but it could be argued he has a habit of jumping to conclusions.

Then again I'm not technically on a "level" to be able to disagree with him, but the oil filter thing just seemed completely unsubstantiated to me. We all gather information from "experts" and make decisions about credibility every day with many things in our lives (except for a very minor occurrence about four years ago), so I can see how others reach different conclusions

 

[Astro14]

No, they brought it to him because of rodent damage their other shop couldn't fix. This guy keeps towing it from quite a ways away to this shop because the other shop can't handle it. I'm pretty sure the other shop does the general maintenance.

Fair enough.

Like I said - I could only watch the first 10 minutes or so, out of sheer boredom. He just doesn't get to the point.

 

[burbguy82]

Recently, I bought a 200 Series, Lx570, with the 3UR engine. Before I did, I investigated many issues with it, as it was all very new to me, having experience with Gm trucks and older jeeps. I came to the conclusion that while there are known issues, they are generally reliable.

The Car Care Nut, was one of the sources I watched, amongst others. Of all those who praise Toyotas for overall quality, and reliability, this guy sure finds a bunch of problems, BIG problems, expensive problems with otherwise very well made engines. He does have a bunch of good information concerning Toyota maintenance, to his credit, but........

A hammer sees a nail. He seems to overinflate concerns IMO, and make them out to be more than what they are. he wants to do engines, he wants to have a niche outside the dealership, and a successful you tube channel.

I see a trend, but it is not in the cars, it is in the diagnostician.

 

[burbguy82]

He said (at least in the part that I could slog through) that the vehicle was serviced at his shop and that it was in only a year ago and featured in one of his videos.

So, yeah, he's been maintaining it.

Now, he had enough time to film a video with it - but he didn't have time to recommend any other service to the owner?

Right, its the owners fault for not changing his coolant, but yet, as you said, he is the one who could have serviced it.

Further, if there is no over heating, how could there be out of spec warpage? At least warpage that is unfixable. .0002, over the entire head is not much, they are big heads. Both head and block could not be mated? I think it could be.

Also, I do not see any way that he could jump to a conclusion that either is out of spec, especially the block

 

[thescreensavers]

This is spreading all over Facebook. I think that's a positive since it will get people to actually do maintenance and not keep to minimum suggested maintenance that isn't in the best interest for longevity.

 

[burbguy82]

This is spreading all over Facebook. I think that's a positive since it will get people to actually do maintenance and not keep to minimum suggested maintenance that isn't in the best interest for longevity.

That is a good point. IMO published intervals are for the good of the company, not the owner.

 

[benjamming]

Right, its the owners fault for not changing his coolant, but yet, as you said, he is the one who could have serviced it.

Further, if there is no over heating, how could there be out of spec warpage? At least warpage that is unfixable. .0002, over the entire head is not much, they are big heads. Both head and block could not be mated? I think it could be.

Also, I do not see any way that he could jump to a conclusion that either is out of spec, especially the block

The head was perfectly fine. The block was 0.0021 when spec is 0.00257. The owner is going to continue on with a new head gasket & see if the in spec, barely, runs fine like it is. That's the same thing that I would've done. Of course, that doesn't make it the "right" decision, but I can understand where the owner is coming from. If it's in spec, then it should be fine. Otherwise, the spec is wrong.

 

[Shel_B]

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but where does he say that he was doing the maintenance or care on these vehicles that are now failing? Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying. The vehicle he is specifically using as an example in the video sounds like it was being maintained at another shop and he only brings it to this shop when the other shop can't figure out or handle problems, like the previous rodent damage.

These vehicles were in service and being serviced before TCCN even started his business.

 

[D60]

Right, its the owners fault for not changing his coolant, but yet, as you said, he is the one who could have serviced it.

Further, if there is no over heating, how could there be out of spec warpage? At least warpage that is unfixable. .0002, over the entire head is not much, they are big heads. Both head and block could not be mated? I think it could be.

Also, I do not see any way that he could jump to a conclusion that either is out of spec, especially the block

Not to be pedantic but you've got an extra zero there

.0002" = two tenths
.002" = two thou

But yeah, it ain't a lot. I'm not qualified to know how much head gaskets can absorb as far as irregularities.

There were a couple comments on YT from machinists that I liked. One pointed out that a gradual slope of two thou from one end to the other is fine. A sudden dip or valley of two thou is too much for the HG to handle (paraphrasing)

 

[wemay]

Fair enough.

Like I said - I could only watch the first 10 minutes or so, out of sheer boredom. He just doesn't get to the point.

Yeah, he said he has four more in his shop with the same issue and two more being brought in with possibly the same issue (overheating). He doesn't mention mileage on those.

 

[burbguy82]

Not to be pedantic but you've got an extra zero there

correct, thanks extra zero

.0002" = two tenths

touche.........two tenths of a thou HAHAHA

Really to measure the block, correctly, it would have to come out, there is that. You could perhaps use a know straight edge and feeler gauges, but really the best way would be on a machine with dial indicators.

There is a limit on how far I would go into an engine, without full removal, I think that would be one of them. I see no reason to do all that inside the truck, other than collateral damage perhaps.

 

[burbguy82]

The head was perfectly fine. The block was 0.0021 when spec is 0.00257. The owner is going to continue on with a new head gasket & see if the in spec, barely, runs fine like it is. That's the same thing that I would've done. Of course, that doesn't make it the "right" decision, but I can understand where the owner is coming from. If it's in spec, then it should be fine. Otherwise, the spec is wrong.

Right, it could have been like that from the start who knows.

And is he only doing the one gasket?

 

[PWMDMD]

I'd be pissed if that happened to me at only 200k miles because it basically writes the truck off or you take a gamble on a used engine that's still several thousand dollars. So yeah IMO it's a big deal. I sure don't see eye to eye with you. I guess it's just chump change to you. Some of us don't have that kind of money hanging around.

n=1 is hardly a compelling case for anything. He didn’t go into detail about the other cases either (mileage, age, use history) but being a specialty shop for Toyota and Lexus and being on Youtube he likely gets the weird/difficult and rare funneled to him. I’m also not entirely confident about his conclusion that it’s due to 100k mile coolant interval, especially since it seems to be the same two cylinders. That to me screams design problem and not a coolant interval problem.

 

[cptbarkey]

So, a 200,000 mile engine has a problem - and that’s a trend? And he takes how long to get to point? I gave up at 10 minutes.

I liked Car Care Nut for awhile, but the past year his tone shifted further with talking down and slight condescension, and this one reeks of selling services and scare tactics.

 

[bullwinkle]

n=1 is hardly a compelling case for anything. He didn’t go into detail about the other cases either (mileage, age, use history) but being a specialty shop for Toyota and Lexus and being on Youtube he likely gets the weird/difficult and rare funneled to him. I’m also not entirely confident about his conclusion that it’s due to 100k mile coolant interval, especially since it seems to be the same two cylinders. That to me screams design problem and not a coolant interval problem.

When ALL the engines have the failure in the same place, it's a design/manufacturing issue. Guessing there are NO othe HGs available for these? May not be a good comparison, but I had good luck in the old days with the blue coated Fel-Pro head gaskets (& BAD luck with the stamped steel ones). If the coolant is the issue, shouldn't there be at least some sign of corrosion somewhere? This isn't Dexcool vs. nylon here...

 

[D60]

When ALL the engines have the failure in the same place, it's a design/manufacturing issue. Guessing there are NO othe HGs available for these? May not be a good comparison, but I had good luck in the old days with the blue coated Fel-Pro head gaskets (& BAD luck with the stamped steel ones). If the coolant is the issue, shouldn't there be at least some sign of corrosion somewhere? This isn't Dexcool vs. nylon here...

I did kinda like that he said NEVER use Fel-Pro. He said he wouldn't even trust them for a drain plug gasket (he was clearly joking - mostly)

All I could think was: @The Critic is that you?? . To be fair, The Critic doesn't hate Fel-Pro that much.

 

[D60]

correct, thanks extra zero

touche.........two tenths of a thou HAHAHA


Really to measure the block, correctly, it would have to come out, there is that. You could perhaps use a know straight edge and feeler gauges, but really the best way would be on a machine with dial indicators.

There is a limit on how far I would go into an engine, without full removal, I think that would be one of them. I see no reason to do all that inside the truck, other than collateral damage perhaps.

I also wondered what he's using to accurately measure tenths with the engine in place? Anyone know?

I mean sure you can sweep a test indicator but what are you anchoring it to? There must be another method of which I am not aware. Not strong on engine machining.

I built a sine vise in school and all critical dims had to be within two tenths, but we of course checked it on a surface plate

Is he just laying a straight edge down and using feelers? Can you accurately measure a tenth that way ‐ I'd think not?

 

[KrisZ]

And here we are talking about his video. I'm pretty sure that was his point all along. Accuracy of his statements, probably not.

 

[wemay]

n=1 is hardly a compelling case for anything. He didn’t go into detail about the other cases either (mileage, age, use history) but being a specialty shop for Toyota and Lexus and being on Youtube he likely gets the weird/difficult and rare funneled to him. I’m also not entirely confident about his conclusion that it’s due to 100k mile coolant interval, especially since it seems to be the same two cylinders. That to me screams design problem and not a coolant interval problem.

To be fair, he alluded to it possibly being a design flaw too.

 

[Astro14]

To be fair, he alluded to it possibly being a design flaw too.

Were you able to watch the whole video? I couldn’t. He just rambles, and wanders, prattling on and failing to get to the point.

Complex topics require complex explanations, but this is not complex.

He could’ve summed up the point in the first 10 minutes with “I’ve seen head gasket failures, and if you look at this gasket, it’s right here on cylinders five and seven. This SUV behind me is an example of one of those failures.”

Done.

So, if it’s a design flaw that doesn’t show up until 200,000 miles, well I wouldn’t say that’s a particularly egregious flaw.

If it’s a failure of maintenance practice, OK, then, why are his customers, who rely on him, experiencing this failure?

Sorry to all of those in his fan boi camp, but this video was disorganized, boring, and YouTube sensationalism at its worst. It’s a Clickbait title with Clickbait information, delivered over a rambling 30 minute video that’s hard to watch.

If the claim is that changing the coolant on the recommended Toyota schedule can be detrimental to the life of a head gasket, OK, that is, perhaps, a valid point.

Was that in fact, the point? Or did he also claim that there was a design flaw?