Car and Driver Lightning Lap VIII!

Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
19,699
Location
Sunny Florida
Fellow track rats: The best distillation of performance cars doing what they should do best. Some tidbits: Subaru WRX munched its front brakes and sent them off course in the dirt. Only 2500 miles and they were metal to metal! They said it reminded them of the Nismo 370Z! Best time for the Scoobie was 3:15.5 Cadillac CTS VSport with 420 hp ran 3:06.8 only one tenth slower than the 550 hp Jaguar XFR-S! Our hot topic here, the Stingray that munched its engine while on track, ran a 2:53.8. This is the REGULAR model folks, not the hi po version! One of my favorites, the Jaguar F Type R coupe ran 3:01.0, not as impressive as you'd think looking at its specs. And the Z/28 turned in a 2:50.9, and recorded the HIGHEST g force ever recorded in turn one, matching the nearly one million dollar 918 Porsche! Which BTW ran 2:43.1!!! Much fun, I would rather spend a day at VIR than almost any other track in the country...
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
6,421
Location
KY
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Fellow track rats: Much fun, I would rather spend a day at VIR than almost any other track in the country...
I'm hoping to instruct at the NCM Motorsports Park next month- we will be running the Grand Full Course- 3.15 miles with a 2,300 foot main straight. That said, my favorite tracks are Watkins Glen and Infineon.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8,085
Location
Michigan
I've been analyzing C&D's Lightning Lap data since they started it. I have a good correlation between Power-to-Weight ratio and lap time prediction around VIR. With a few corrections, I can predict within a few percent what a car should run. I'm scheduled to instruct at the NCM track in Bowling Green, KY in October. I ran VIR in 2007 and loved it. I just haven't found my way back there.
 

SteveSRT8

Thread starter
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
19,699
Location
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I've been analyzing C&D's Lightning Lap data since they started it. I have a good correlation between Power-to-Weight ratio and lap time prediction around VIR. With a few corrections, I can predict within a few percent what a car should run. I'm scheduled to instruct at the NCM track in Bowling Green, KY in October. I ran VIR in 2007 and loved it. I just haven't found my way back there.
Same here. I had two events there back when my Chrysler was new, and it has always remained a cool and challenging "faster" kind of track for me. I get goose bumps just talking about it!
 

SteveSRT8

Thread starter
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
19,699
Location
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Fellow track rats: Much fun, I would rather spend a day at VIR than almost any other track in the country...
I'm hoping to instruct at the NCM Motorsports Park next month- we will be running the Grand Full Course- 3.15 miles with a 2,300 foot main straight. That said, my favorite tracks are Watkins Glen and Infineon.
Never made it to either, but Watkins glen will get a visit soon as me and the lovely Wife will be traveling out there soon, I may have to rent a car though...
 

SteveSRT8

Thread starter
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
19,699
Location
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
I always enjoy their annual Lightning Lap article. Lots of fun cars for sure. That Z/28 sure is quite a car!
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
I didn't read the article in it's entirety yet, but I am most impressed with the Z/28.
Yes, the Z/28 is an amazing effort that really shows the General's technical prowess. The last run of the wonderful naturally aspirated 427 and the largest front tires ever fitted to a production automobile!
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
10,213
Location
Nut farm
I wish I could do a track day in a car...sadly, it's just not practical. (And I absolutely flatly refuse to cut up my de Ville for a rollbar!)
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
6,421
Location
KY
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Never made it to either, but Watkins glen will get a visit soon as me and the lovely Wife will be traveling out there soon, I may have to rent a car though...
This is helpful: Speed Secrets at "The Glen"
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
9,614
Location
Pennsylbammyvania
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
I always enjoy their annual Lightning Lap article. Lots of fun cars for sure. That Z/28 sure is quite a car!
Originally Posted By: kkreit01
I didn't read the article in it's entirety yet, but I am most impressed with the Z/28.
Yes, the Z/28 is an amazing effort that really shows the General's technical prowess. The last run of the wonderful naturally aspirated 427 and the largest front tires ever fitted to a production automobile!
To be fair, it did come with the 'semi-R' compound Trofeos right from the factory, but then some of the others in that test also came with <160 treadwear donuts as well. wink Just TRY to imagine the embarrassment all of the high-zoot Euro and Nippon marques would have to suffer, with the merciless beatdown that car would put on them, if it were ~600 lbs. lighter yet!!! eek USA thumbsup
 

SteveSRT8

Thread starter
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
19,699
Location
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
To be fair, it did come with the 'semi-R' compound Trofeos right from the factory, but then some of the others in that test also came with <160 treadwear donuts as well. wink Just TRY to imagine the embarrassment all of the high-zoot Euro and Nippon marques would have to suffer, with the merciless beatdown that car would put on them, if it were ~600 lbs. lighter yet!!! eek USA thumbsup
There were ferrari engineers babysitting the F12 there, and they thought the Z had some "funny" tires, but it was verified these were regular production numbers spec'd by the general...
 
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
6,765
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
What a world it must be that the exotic car manufacturers have to fear a 5-figure American pony-car that was built on a chassis never designed for this application. Prediction? The next generation Z/28 leaves the exotics with nothing to brag about besides body weight, LED lights, and fancy interiors. GM better lock its doors up at night. And forget the Ferrari engineers. They're still sore they had to go to GM to get Magnetic Ride Control technology.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
9,614
Location
Pennsylbammyvania
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Prediction? The next generation Z/28 leaves the exotics with nothing to brag about besides body weight, LED lights, and fancy interiors.
Yes, can you imagine if that smaller lighter platform has all of the; power, handling dynamics, and passive aero benefits of the current Z28?!?! YIKES! eek I'd better start saving for one, as I'd LOVE to be able to absolutely destroy all of the uppity/snooty M/AMG/P-car/Nismo GTR/etc. owners around here with a 'lowly' "mullet-mobile", and be PROUD of it. crackmeup
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8,085
Location
Michigan
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Prediction? The next generation Z/28 leaves the exotics with nothing to brag about besides body weight, LED lights, and fancy interiors.
Yes, can you imagine if that smaller lighter platform has all of the; power, handling dynamics, and passive aero benefits of the current Z28?!?! YIKES! eek I'd better start saving for one, as I'd LOVE to be able to absolutely destroy all of the uppity/snooty M/AMG/P-car/Nismo GTR/etc. owners around here with a 'lowly' "mullet-mobile", and be PROUD of it. crackmeup
Why not spend your money on making your current Camaro as fast as a new Z28? Could it be done? I've been seeing new Z28's in the parking lot at work, but don't see myself buying one. Too big to be a Camaro, in my opinion. I prefer the sleek shape and trim size of the 4th-Gen Camaro. I'm thinking about doing an engine swap in mine. LS3 with a hot cam; 485 HP, and the car weighs 300 pounds less than a Z28. Then a lot of work on the chassis and brakes, and maybe I'd get close. I think GM's Ride and Handling engineers must be a cut above their counterparts at Ford and Chrysler. Ford's 650HP Mustang can't get close to matching a 500HP Corvette on a road course. I'd like to see a matchup between the new Z28 and the Hellcat. I'd bet the Z28 wins.
 
Last edited:

SteveSRT8

Thread starter
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
19,699
Location
Sunny Florida
Yeah, there's no doubt that the Z would be tough to beat. But remember the Hellcat is legacy tech from the Daimler era. This yields a great GT but somewhat less of a sportscar. And the z has ONE speaker, no air, etc., unless you add those two options. It's actually quite spartan, where the ole 'Cat is all tarted up with fancy gim-crackery...
 
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
6,421
Location
KY
I'd go with the Hellcat for my broadsword and pick up a 1 Series M Coupe(with some Dinan tuning) for my stiletto...
 
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
6,765
Location
Fort Lauderdale, FL
The Ford engineers are dealing with significantly higher body weight in the GT500, as well as the fact that it is not a dedicated sportscar. Room for improvement? Probably. But will it tromp a dedicated sportscar chassis? Probably not. The current gen Camaro is hampered by being built on a chassis that was meant to be a full size Cadillac flagship sedan. Same was the Challenger suffers from being built on an existing Chrysler full size flagship sedan. The Mustang suffers from being built on a dead Lincoln mid-size sedan, so it fares a bit better on body weight and size.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
1,445
Location
Dana Point, CA
To the ringer rubber naysayers, that’s almost always the best ROI for slicing down lap times in my experience. Nothing prohibiting other manufacturers from specifying and fitting high-end/low TWR consumables for their 'sporty' offerings, too.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
...The current gen Camaro is hampered by being built on a chassis that was meant to be a full size Cadillac flagship sedan. Same was the Challenger suffers from being built on an existing Chrysler full size flagship sedan. The Mustang suffers from being built on a dead Lincoln mid-size sedan, so it fares a bit better on body weight and size.
No doubt they’re all afflicted somewhat by bean counters’ compromises and available hardware from their respective parts bins. The Z-28, however, doesn’t seem to be suffering too much in the chassis dynamics portion of the equation. smile
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
7,180
Location
CT
Almost 7 seconds is a world apart. IMHO the C7 is far more interesting than the Z28 which is fundamentally to heavy, and dated at this point. Now the C7 is a very young design and much lighter to start out with, I can't help but think what millions and a team of engineers could do to a really high performance version. I suspect it could get into the 918's lap time. Whats the lap record at VIR? F1 cars tend to be very fast and set them, it would be interesting to know as a benchmark.
 
Last edited:
Top