Canola Oil Home Brew Motor Oil

[Ducked]

Couple of other things.

1. Users of straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) as diesel fuel have some indirect and accidental experience with this, especially if they get fuel dilution of the sump oil. There are a few failure modes associated with this, including:-

(a) The sump oil gels, and the engine dies from lack of lubrication. That's your main risk, but you'll get there quicker because you've replaced most of your sump oil with veg.

(b) The veg oil sticks the piston rings, which allow enough lube oil into the cylinders to run the engine which races uncontrollably until it breaks, or uses up all its sump oil, when it breaks.

Can only be stopped by cutting of its air supply, (or, I suppose, shooting it, if you are in the USA and prepared for the zombie apocalypse). I don't think this can happen with a petrol engine.

(c) Chunks of carbon go through the exhaust valves and hit the turbo blades. Only applies if you (used to) have turbo blades.

2. Having looked at your emissions numbers which I skipped before, it appears you only failed on NOX. I can't think of a likely way that using veg oil as a lube will reduce NOX. IF it reduces oil burning I suppose the efficiency of the catalyst MIGHT go up, but its a bit of a stretch. I THINK NOX is reduced at source by reducing combustion temperatures, for example using EGR. If you could get some water into your fuel, perhaps by using alcohol as a bridging solvent, or rigging up some kind of dripper/squirter in the induction path, that might have some cooling effect.

 

[Ducked]

And, just to repeat, in case you missed it before:-

Get it out of there

Get it out of there

Get it out of there

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: jayg



HAHAHA at almost half a million miles, can't pass emissions and the body is rusty, why not have some fun and experiment on it? It owes him nothing and if he was wants to put a Do not resuscitate on the truck and not spend absolutely any more money on it, then it is the PERFECT candidate to run these kinds of experiments on.

Dangerous to engine longevity at 460k miles slayed me.


Maybe there isn't a rational economic reason not to do it (though in this case we havn't seen much evidence of a rationale for doing it either) but not everything is always dollars and cents.

There can be such a thing as mechanical sympathy.

 

[landtoy80]

The test is over with 400 miles on the oil.
Changed the oil to Valvoline HM semi syn 10w40 oil.

No mixing of mineral and veggie oils. Its 100% veggie oil.

The varnish was on the motor when I got it at 208,000 mi. Running mostly Rotella T/T6 5w40 of the last 13 years did nothing to remove the varnish. I don't plan on removing the valve cover any time soon as I just replace the valve cover gasket last year.

Could there be something in the veggie oils that reacted with the varnish and started to dissolve it?


Canola oil is the thinnest of the oils that I had. Castor oil is just as thick as many of the oil stabilizers (no smoke additives) I have used. The other oils were a little thicker than the canola but thickened up faster in the freezer.

 

[landtoy80]

As for NOx

Per G-Oil "Provide significant reductions in HC (hydrocarbons -32%), CO (carbon monoxide -48%) and NOx (nitrous oxides -80% emissions"
G-Oil Nox

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: landtoy80
As for NOx

Per G-Oil "Provide significant reductions in HC (hydrocarbons -32%), CO (carbon monoxide -48%) and NOx (nitrous oxides -80% emissions"
G-Oil Nox



But you weren't running "G-Oil". You were running a mix of unmodified, unstable vegetable oils.

Its possible that this would also reduce NOx, but since there's no explanation for the claimed reduction on the G-Oil website, its not possible to assess whether its likely to be relevant to your situation.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: landtoy80


No mixing of mineral and veggie oils. Its 100% veggie oil.




This is only true if you got 100% of the original oil out, which seems unlikely.

Can't prove it, but I've observed with aged mixtures of diesel fuel, veg oil and engine oil, that, although sludge forms at ambient temperature it doesn't set, or sets very slowly.

(The mixtures were for rust inhibition, which, from your description, might have been a better use on your vehicle)

I suspect the mineral oil inhibits and slows the cross-linking. This probably won't be much of a defence in an operating engine but it might buy you a little time.

 

[landtoy80]

The guy that came up with canola based motor oil started his test using refined canola oil but found that after 12 hours of running in the motor the he hot oil turns into a stringy goop. He then bought his own press and found that unrefined canola oils didn't do this. He did emissions tests and found that the oil reduced emissions by 30%. He then came up with a canola based veggie motor.

This whole test was to see if veggie oils could reduce my NOx. It worked with G-Oil but G-Oil is only available in limited quantities and not cost effective to test with. As is the other currently available biodegrade oil.
The Land Cruiser oil sump holds just under 8 quarts, to order any of the veggie oils will be close to or over $100.

There are other "smokeless oils" out there that cost well over $100.

It cost me less than $20 to try my home brew oil. I used what the inventor of the canola oil mix used when he did his first tests with refined canola oil. Had I had access to unrefined oils my results might of been better with regards to NOx.

With just under 8 quarts in the motor, I am sure what little oil that was in the motor was very minor. Better testing could be done after a couple of oil changes with the canola oil mix. With my refined veggie oils, I only had 12 hours to work with before I needed to remove the oil per the inventor. Using unrefined veggie oils would of lasted longer in the motor and would have a better chance to clear out the mineral oil residue.

As I am so close to passing with NOx, I would spend the $100+/- to see if the veggie based motor oil would help lower my NOx after seeing that my home brew veggie oil lowered my NOx.

I also found a place that sells ethanol free gasoline. I found that adding alcohol increased my emissions. So trying emission test 100% gasoline was next on my list to try.

Now that I no longer need to emission test, I no longer need to continue with this test.

One thing has changed from my last emission test 2 years ago. The O2 sensors that I cleaned with the acid bath along with the cats didn't throw a code after cleaning. This year I have been getting an intermittent O2 code that means the O2's are failing or there are other problems that could be causing a rich/lean condition. Most likely its worn O2's as they have 94,000 miles on them. This is probably why the G-Oil got me to pass last time as the O2's were working and now they are having signs of failure.

 

[Shannow]

Havto admit that I've had canola brew in my caprice for a oci in the last few years.

Bit different inhat it was a very high saps HDMI (demo gold ultra) with 20% canolain it.

Nothing blew up, so it must have been great.

Have also used home made ethyl ester of canola and used it as a defacto neutra

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Havto admit that I've had canola brew in my caprice for a oci in the last few years.

Bit different inhat it was a very high saps HDMI (demo gold ultra) with 20% canolain it.

Nothing blew up, so it must have been great.

Have also used home made ethyl ester of canola and used it as a defacto neutra


You mean 20% chemically (as opposed to genetically, which would be a contradiction in terms) unmodified Canola oil?

For a whole OCI? (Whatever that was. I'm assuming something along manufacturers recommended time/miles lines)?

If so, knock me dahn wiv a fevva!

 

[Ducked]

Unrefined Canola oil may have some natural antioxidants in it which slow polymerisation.

"Inventor" is a bit of a stretch, but how long did the "inventor" run the unrefined stuff for?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Ducked


If so, knock me dahn wiv a fevva!


Apologies, was 1,000km at 10% at the end of an oci...needed top-up, so dd it with canola.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3391749/Re:_Canola_Follow-up#Post3391749

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Ducked


If so, knock me dahn wiv a fevva!


Apologies, was 1,000km at 10% at the end of an oci...needed top-up, so dd it with canola.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3391749/Re:_Canola_Follow-up#Post3391749


Still a bit brave, with a non-disposable car (I assume). I've used veg oil mixes as chain lube on motorcycles, where there isn't much risk and you can see what's happening. Mostly used sunflower oil because I had a lot. It goes plasticky eventually but might have potential if you found the right recipe. However, I ride motorcycles so little now that there isn't much opportunity for testing.

Interesting thread, though 2014, and "the rest is silence". There's a paper linked

https://hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-029.html

Title is "Canola-based Motor Oils" which is a problem in this area, because that often means the Canola was the feedstock for a chemically modified product which can't really be compared to straight vegetable oil.

In this case, though, the mix is supplemented with other stuff, but the base does seem to be unmodified, and it does confirm that emissions, including NOx, were reduced.

I wonder what the explanation for this is?

I can see how oil consumption (and smoking) could be lowered, and perhaps this could have an effect via improved catalyst efficiency. Otherwise I can't see how the motor oil used will affect NOx production, unless burning Canola oil has some quenching or scavenging affect on the NOx reaction.

 

[Ducked]

The apparent oil "recovery" reported in the above thread reminds me of the dispersible goo I've seen in my aged anti-rust mixtures. Possibly polymerised veg oil is getting sheared down in use. If you kept doing that, until the double bonds were all cross-linked, you might eventually end up with a fairly stable dispersion of semi-solid veg oil particles in mineral oil. Natures (well, GMO Nature's) Slick 50?

Probably work well in cars with the deeply-dodgy shared-sump configuration, like the BMC Mini, or timing gears (Volvo 140, Corvette?). Probably not a great idea in the shear-prone shared sump motorcycle because of the clutch plates.

In this context efficient oil filtration probably isn't your friend, you'd better be sure your bypass works, and it might be worth removing the strainer from your oil pump pickup.

If I was going to test this (don't think I am) I'd probably use an old scooter.

 

[landtoy80]

I have to admit, had I known that I had to drive up to AK end of Feb I would not of done test.
I have no problem destroying the motor in the lower 48 but an engine failure in the Yukon in the dead of winter makes me a little nervous.

I keep my bicycle in the back just encase of a breakdown, little good that will do on the Alaskan Hwy in winter.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: landtoy80
I have to admit, had I known that I had to drive up to AK end of Feb I would not of done test.
I have no problem destroying the motor in the lower 48 but an engine failure in the Yukon in the dead of winter makes me a little nervous.

I keep my bicycle in the back just encase of a breakdown, little good that will do on the Alaskan Hwy in winter.


Well, its out now, so any resultant risk is much reduced. I suppose its possible that some lurking lump blocks a critical oil way, but it doesn't seem VERY likely.

You could do another oil or filter change (save the old?), though that'll cost money, and/or you could drop the sump/remove the rocker cover for a reassuring look, depending on how much trouble that is.

Probably also a good thing to drive it regularly before the big trip, which will keep stuff moving.

I've only slept in a car in Scotland (to about -20C) which I did for a winter semester at Aberdeen University. Alaska is of course MUCH scarier, but I'd carry an Arctic-equivalent sleeping bag (2 cheaper ones can be as effective if you don't have to backpack them) and some kind of mattress, though you probably already do that.

 

[landtoy80]

Good sleeping bag, survival (foil mylar) blanket, warm hat, thick wool socks and foam mattress topper will/should keep me warm. I removed the rear seat so plenty of sleeping room. Debating weather to bring a propane heater but worry about fumes. If the window is open to vent exhaust, will it just get colder than keeping the windows closed.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: landtoy80
Good sleeping bag, survival (foil mylar) blanket, warm hat, thick wool socks and foam mattress topper will/should keep me warm. I removed the rear seat so plenty of sleeping room. Debating weather to bring a propane heater but worry about fumes. If the window is open to vent exhaust, will it just get colder than keeping the windows closed.


I sometimes used a hot water bottle in Scotland (Yeh, I'm a wimp) 1 (or 2?) L coke bottle with hot (not boiling cos the bottle will melt) water in it, inside a couple of spare pairs of socks. Stayed warm all night and could be used to make coffee (reheated a bit) and thaw ice off the windscreen (bottle placed on the dash) in the morning. Have also used SS Thermos as HWB. The car (Nissan Sunny) always started but sometimes there was a lot of ice on the outside and I couldn't initially open the doors.

A stove would be useful for the HWB, for cooking, and as a (slightly risky) engine starting aid, if that's a possibility. I'd think using a heater routinely will produce a lot of condensation, might kill you, and shouldn't be necessary, but I have nothing comparable to Alaskan experience.

Propane doesn't work well if its really cold, though. You might have to sleep with the gas cylinder.

 

[landtoy80]

From what I have read, people are more likely to render assistant on the AK hwy than most other places in winter.

 

[Ducked]

Wonder how it'd do as a gearbox additive. Lower temperatures, less atomisation/oxygen exposure, fairly reliable shearing, and less apparent disaster potential.

I suppose it might stop the synchros and gears sliding, or maybe make roller bearings skid.