Can zinc-phosphate additives damage aluminum engines??

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rcy

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Here's a short story from The Toronto Star Saturday March 19 edition. What do you think about the statement re: zinc-phosphate damaging engines?

Despite the rivers of lubricant poured into engine blocks every day, just how the additives in modern automotive oils work to decrease friction in the heat and pressure of internal combustion is something of a mystery.

A team of chemists and mathematicians at the University of Western Ontario, however, has come up with a theory that appears to explain not only how additives work — but why they sometimes don't.

The most common anti-wear additives are complicated compounds containing zinc and phosphate.

Martin Muser and his colleagues used computer simulations, not laboratory experiments, to deduce what happens at a molecular level when a film of oil containing additives is compressed between two hot, hard surfaces in an engine.

Their conclusion is that as the pressure rises, the molecules of zinc-phosphate dissolved in the oil form cross-links with each other.

More are formed as the pressure increases, until at pressures achieved in engines made of steel alloys, the compounds form a semi-solid molecular mesh.

The mesh is capable of bending and stretching between the steel surfaces, keeping them from wearing each other down.

When the pressure drops, only some of the cross-links undo themselves. Most remain.

This gives the oil a "memory" of its harshest conditions and helps it return more easily to full lubricating capacity.

The findings, reported last week in the journal Science, also explain why zinc-phosphate additives can damage aluminum engines.

The cross-linked mesh can become harder than aluminum and abrade surfaces rather than protect them.
 
quote:

rcy:
Here's a short story from The Toronto Star Saturday March 19 edition. What do you think about the statement re: zinc-phosphate damaging engines? .....

The findings, reported last week in the journal Science, also explain why zinc-phosphate additives can damage aluminum engines.

The cross-linked mesh can become harder than aluminum and abrade surfaces rather than protect them.


Where are there aluminum surfaces against bearing surfaces except the pistons?

And there the oil film is generally thicker than the molecules of zinc and phosphorous, so the amount of pressure to abrade is only momentary, and there the relevant wear is the difference between the zinc and phosporous and what wear would occur when the oil film is broken without the additive.


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I don't know if this in related to your thread abocve, but GM has gone to tougher specs on engine gaskets this year. They've issued all new engine gaskets on the 2005 Colorado vs thoise of 2004. They claim it's due to governmental regulations calling for stronger emissions standards, gas mileage regulations... etc. Will some of this "added additives" found in oils like these new Mobil Oils eventually eat your engine gaskets in many older vehicles??... it's quite possible.

For all those with older vehicles.... ya' may want to find the SLs before the SMs when buying oil.
 
In the 02 version of Nissans QR25DE motor the bearings were made of aluminum! This US spec meant longer life for the bearing. It also meant though that failure due to slight oil starvation would be immidiate! They now use steel bearings
 
quote:

Triple_Se7en:
..... Will some of this "added additives" found in oils like these new Mobil Oils eventually eat your engine gaskets in many older vehicles??... it's quite possible. .....

The Mobil motor oils have been heavily tested in both field and test fleets, and have been certified to their respective API and/or ACEA pursuant to industry standard sequence tests.

I'd be more concerned about some of the uncertified motor oils put up using unusual ingredients by some of the boutique bottlers.


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It is a non-issue! All of the UOA we have show this to not be an issue. I have never seen an aluminum bearing like what is found in all of Toyota's OHC engines wich have always had aluminum heads ever. THe only time I have seen these damaged is by prolonged no-load high rpm abuse and oil starvation. Other then these I have never seen an aluminum part chemical damaged to the point of failure ever in any car or truck! Also very few engine are all aluminum! Most good aluminum engines excludeing exotics have sleves in their bores and most contact areas are made out of steel! The friction from rubbing would do in an aluminuim part long before this Zinc theory ever could!I would suspect that fatigue would cause cracking long before the zinc coumputer sim would ever bear out!
 
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