CAA EV Test: Cold saps 40% of EV battery life

[UncleDave]

I’m curious if EVs that are parked in a warm garage overnight will suffer from the same loss of range in the winter months?

Not the same loss but some loss.

It's not so so much about it being cold out - but how cold you let the battery get.

If you have a 50 amp connector and the car is in in or even not in a heated garage you can be at full outbound range with the car all toasty inside ready to go every morning

 

[UncleDave]

To be honest I'm a bit surprised by the Model 3's added range, but I don't think that's from charging efficiency, the car itself is just that efficient driving compared to some of the portly weighted vehicles on this list. Teslas haven't been setting records for charging numbers.

Im not surprised the Model 3 did well.
Im surprised how poorly the supposedly superior 800V cars did.

 

[Torrid]

Im not surprised the Model 3 did well.
Im surprised how poorly the supposedly superior 800V cars did.

I'm not surprised by it doing well to be honest and I should have clarified it better, but I think it's an interesting distinction that it's not a particularly fast charging vehicle, it just uses very little power to move. If anything it's more consistent than fast to charge.

 

[JHZR2]

This isn’t a surprise at all…

 

[JHZR2]

Im not surprised the Model 3 did well.
Im surprised how poorly the supposedly superior 800V cars did.

I’m not immediately seeing why the 800v design would matter. This is an issue with cell impedances and reaction rates under cold conditions… the esr of an 800v battery would be higher than the lower voltage battery, but in the aggregate I doubt it matters much for cold weather ops…

 

[UncleDave]

I’m not immediately seeing why the 800v design would matter. This is an issue with cell impedances and reaction rates under cold conditions… the esr of an 800v battery would be higher than the lower voltage battery, but in the aggregate I doubt it matters much for cold weather ops…

It was also 150KW vs 350KW

You'd think you could dump more into the cabin, battery heat, and charging with more KW to spend.
Run those pumps and heaters everywhere there is one at a full blast.

 

[UncleDave]

I'm not surprised by it doing well to be honest and I should have clarified it better, but I think it's an interesting distinction that it's not a particularly fast charging vehicle, it just uses very little power to move. If anything it's more consistent than fast to charge.

I thinks rated at 4.9MPKWH.
5 is what the CEO of lucid claims is the highest attainable number one can hope for without the introduction of ultra exotic materials

 

[Brons2]

I’m not immediately seeing why the 800v design would matter. This is an issue with cell impedances and reaction rates under cold conditions… the esr of an 800v battery would be higher than the lower voltage battery, but in the aggregate I doubt it matters much for cold weather ops…

Also how good (efficient) their battery thermal transfer subsystem in the car is. I'm sure there are a lot of tradeoffs when heating and cooling batteries for optimum performance.

 

[Torrid]

I thinks rated at 4.9MPKWH.
5 is what the CEO of lucid claims is the highest attainable number one can hope for without the introduction of ultra exotic materials

They really reworked the aero on the car and focused on efficiency across the board on the the Model 3 refresh. I don't feel they put near as much effort into the new Model Y.

 

[normal username]

That's a larger hit than I expected.

In theory, that cold hit percentage will only be an even larger portion of the battery with some eventual battery health wear mixed in. Yikes

 

[Jetronic]

That's a good question (and may be a good suggestion for them in a future test), you'd like to validate whether the "19km" on the Toyota for example, actually translates to 19km or if that's an over-estimate (or under-estimate).

it could have been on 0 for 100 km, and the actual range now is 119, i agree.

 

[Jetronic]

And compared to a gasoline powered equivalent, this is how much different?

As a comparison point, my F150 gets just under 10% worse gas mileage in January than it does on average over the year. That's over 130,000 miles in a lot of Minnesota's climate... Nearly all of my gas powered vehicles follow a similar pattern, to differing degrees.

For me the difference is bigger, but I suspect I run a higher percentage without a fully warmed up engine. it takes up to 15 miles to get the engine coolant to normal in the cold (and it doesn't always make it there if quite cold and I arrive at work), 2-3 miles when it's warm.

I see about 15-20% drop vs the best possible.

 

[MNgopher]

Being transparent, I noted 10% lower than my long term overall average for the vehicle. If you want to compare to the best case scenario, its actually closer to a a 20% difference than the "Best Case" overall monthly...

A real world number right now - my long term average on the 2016 F150 with the 2.7 is 17.6 MPG. Current weather is 0-10F, lows in the lows around -10F. My fuel mileage for this tank after 350 miles is sitting at 15.8MPG.

 

[UncleDave]

They really reworked the aero on the car and focused on efficiency across the board on the the Model 3 refresh. I don't feel they put near as much effort into the new Model Y.

They actually did do some tricks, the Leno interview with Franz and the Larhs was pretty good and they talk about some of the things they did. The front end is unique now vs being just a bigger 3 so it has a subtly diff personality. The lightbar allows a better laminar flow and the package is down to .22

They talked about suspicion as well a 5% stiffer frame allowed more compliant bushing improving initial strike feel.

On the cold charging they do have a new trick -when supercharging they can purposefully induce current ripple into the system which has the knock on effect of heating the battery faster while charging.

 

[Torrid]

They actually did do some tricks, the Leno interview with Franz and the Larhs was pretty good and they talk about some of the things they did. The front end is unique now vs being just a bigger 3 so it has a subtly diff personality. The lightbar allows a better laminar flow and the package is down to .22

They talked about suspicion as well a 5% stiffer frame allowed more compliant bushing improving initial strike feel.

On the cold charging they do have a new trick -when supercharging they can purposefully induce current ripple into the system which has the knock on effect of heating the battery faster while charging.

I get that they made changes, but it didn't seem like the big leap the Model 3 made in efficiency. I think that's just the limitation of how much taller the Model Y is. It's possible that the estimates for range are a bit conservative though and it'll do that much better than the current Model Y. The RWD Model 3 being estimated at 363 miles and hitting 380 miles in two tests at 70mph was crazy impressive.

There's something weird to the mid cycle refreshes that Tesla has done, then again their cars have only had those. I take forever to come around with their changes. It took years for me to like the new front on the Model S. I still don't love the new Model 3 from every angle. I absolutely hate this Model Y redesign so far. I don't think it would be so off putting if they hadn't done the light bars and I really don't like the lower headlight approach instead of having a normal headlight housing. They seem like a lot of weird touches that get so much weirder when put together.

Maybe I won't hate it in 5 years.

 

[Brons2]

They seem like a lot of weird touches that get so much weirder when put together.

That's what I think about new Teslas in general.

When they were first released in the early 2010s they were more normal. Now everything is just so weird, the whole experience of driving one. It's a big turnoff for me.

If you go rent a car from anyone, pretty much anywhere in the world, the overall control experience is similar. I rented cars on 3 continents in 2024. Getting into a Tesla is a departure from these norms, and with the newest models, the departures seem to be accelerating. As noted on these forums, I drove a Cybertruck in 2024 at Circuit of the Americas. You have to be re-educated in order to get in and be familar with it. It's not anything you can't get used to, but, I don't feel like you should have to. It's a reason both of our cars are non-Tesla EVs.

 

[Torrid]

That's what I think about new Teslas in general.

When they were first released in the early 2010s they were more normal. Now everything is just so weird, the whole experience of driving one. It's a big turnoff for me.

If you go rent a car from anyone, pretty much anywhere in the world, the overall control experience is similar. I rented cars on 3 continents in 2024. Getting into a Tesla is a departure from these norms, and with the newest models, the departures seem to be accelerating. As noted on these forums, I drove a Cybertruck in 2024 at Circuit of the Americas. You have to be re-educated in order to get in and be familar with it. It's not anything you can't get used to, but, I don't feel like you should have to. It's a reason both of our cars are non-Tesla EVs.

At this point I think I'm completely opposite since the cars just feel normal to me. Then again that's all I own now.