bypass filter change intervals

[P]

I'm trying to figure why there are MAJOR differences in the bypass filter change intervals between some different manufacturers:
(all info taken from respective websites)

For example the Frantz bypass filter--
change after first 500 miles then depending on driving:
Town-2 months/2000 miles
Highway-4 months/4000 miles
Combination T/H-3 months/3000 miles

Motor Guard bypass filter--
V4- 4000 miles
V6- 3000 miles
V8- 2000 miles

Trasko bypass filter--
Media, gaskets and oil change is recommended at first 5000 miles then every 10000 miles

Why is Frantz the only manufacturer stating time limits for their filter?

Why is Motor Guard change interval determined by engine size?

Why is the Trasko only changed when ALL the oil is changed?

 

[RJCorazza]

I am not familar with the Trasko. I believe the Frantz initial 500 mile replacement is if the oil is well into its OCI. It's more likely an old recommendation based on older engines.

The Motorguard intervals are conservative assuming limited short trips. The V6's I have motorguards on do not need to be changed at 3000 miles, though I have been changing them at 3k in my wife's van and 2000 in my F150. For a modern highway driven vehicle I would say that 5k is even a conservative interval. Engine size has some effect on contaminants that are produced (more combustion, more contaminants). I don't know why Frantz has a time spec on element replacement -

 

[ruking77]

http://oilguard.com/price_info.php

Not to hyjack your thread, but you may wish to read a tad about the oilguard!!??

 

[mjo]

quote:

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Why is Motor Guard change interval determined by engine size?

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b/c the larger the engine, the more pollution it generates contaminating the oil.

 

[sifan]

The actual change interval really depends on the type of engine and driving. For cars like my '03 Toyota Echo the engine oil is exposed to high temperature and becomes oxidized around 2k miles of combined local and highway driving. The dark brown color is a sign of depletion of oil additives that requires TP change (for my Frantz filter).

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

This is what Debbie at Frantz told me regarding when to change the TP:

After engine has had time to heat the oil up, place your hand on the canister that holds the TP and if it's hot then you are getting flow through (no need to change the TP). If you place your hand on the canister and there is no heat then you need to replace the TP element because the oil isn't going through the TP, hence no filtering is being done through the bypass.

 

[RalphPWood]

Normally you don't drain the oil with a Frantz or Motor Guard. You change the filter and add enough new oil to keep the additives up to the right amount. Some filter companies recommendations are based on getting normal life from the engine and changing the oil when it gets dirty. The only way you can go longer than Frantz and Motor Guard recommends without the oil getting dirty is if the filter is larger. There are things building up in the oil that can't be removed by even the Frantz or Motor Guard. These are oxidtion byproducts and soot that is even smaller than cigarette smoke.
I have a large Fleetguard LF 750 filter on a Cummins at work. It holds 16 qts of oil and I expect it to clean oil better than the small filters and go about 16 times farther between filter changes. It uses two rolls of paper towels and three rolls of TP, a large filter will always out filter a small filter if the elements have the same depth and are filtering at the same rate. Some engines can go farther between filter changes depending on a lot of things. TP filters have been around since the 30's and we know how good they are. We don't know anything about your engine and what kind of load it is putting on the filter. Normally TP filters give you longer engine life because they filter better and get changed more often.
It is not good to compare the change recommendations of the less effective filters to the filters that clean oil. The only way you can beat the TP filters is with a better sales pitch. The Motor Guard is the least messy to change of the TP filters but they all clean oil.

Ralph

 

[msparks]

The design of the filter and the size of the filter will also determine the filter change intervals.

With the Amsoil unit, you are supposed to change your FF filter ever 6 months or 12500 miles and you change the by-pass filter once a year or 25,000 miles. I use the largest by-pass filter in my F150 and change it approximately every 2 years.

 

[Gary Allan]

That's got to be qualified. Every Amsoil OIL product has a 1 year limit on its OCI. I don't think the bypass filter will have any impact on any claim (or would it?

).

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

The AMSOIL drain interval can be extended indefinitely when backed by oil analysis.
I know folks with Cummins turbodiesels who have not drained their oil pan in over 250,000 miles.

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve S:
MS, I know the Amsoil bypass filter will last but will Amsoil cover a failure when or if the filter is not changed as per Amsoils recommended intervals?

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You have to remember even is you never changed the by-pass filter you are still getting full flow filtration. I know a guy that hadn't changed his in like 5 years. I'm sure it wastn' too effective plus he was changing oil every 5,000 miles. The by-pass filter was basically useless for him.

On mine even after 2 years it was still getting hot. The only reason I changed it was cause my TBN was a little lower than I like plus the viscosity was creeping to the high 40's and I wanted to get it back in check.

 

[Steve S]

MS, I know the Amsoil bypass filter will last but will Amsoil cover a failure when or if the filter is not changed as per Amsoils recommended intervals?

 

[P]

"This is what Debbie at Frantz told me regarding when to change the TP: After the engine has had time to heat the oil up, place your hand on the cannister that holds the TP and if it's hot then you are getting flow through(no need to change the TP)" Go_Hog_Go

Go_Hog_Go,

If this is the ONLY criteria for changing the TP in the Frantz then I have two questions:

Why is Frantz's filter change interval criteria
different on their website?

If the Frantz is saturated with water then doesn't oil still flow through it? --so not changing the TP would leave water in the oil.

Just asking.

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

quote:

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Originally posted by P:
"This is what Debbie at Frantz told me regarding when to change the TP: After the engine has had time to heat the oil up, place your hand on the cannister that holds the TP and if it's hot then you are getting flow through(no need to change the TP)" Go_Hog_Go

Go_Hog_Go,

If this is the ONLY criteria for changing the TP in the Frantz then I have two questions:

Why is Frantz's filter change interval criteria
different on their website?

If the Frantz is saturated with water then doesn't oil still flow through it? --so not changing the TP would leave water in the oil.

Just asking.

---

Debbie stated that the limits that are on the website are listed as general statements, just like every other bypass filter manufacturer does. She also told me that if you use a high quality synthetic oil that the interval in between element changes could be increased also.

 

[P]

Question for Ralph:

I am curious as to why your website doesn't post a time based change interval for the Motor Guard M30?

It appears that Frantz thinks it matters.

Say a person's driving style for a V8 is as follows:

Lives in northern climate
Mostly short trips (less than 10 miles)
Drives about 2K in the colder months
and about 3K in the warmer months

Wouldn't you want the TP changed MORE THAN ONCE in the colder months?

 

[RalphPWood]

It's a lot of guess work. If you change the filter too often you waste money. Not enough and your oil will get dirty. I've been at it so long that I can tell if I am changing the filter often enough. Filter change recommendations are like oil change recommendations. To help sell cars they tell you that you can go 7,500 miles. Then another car maker will claim that you can go 10,000 miles between changes. The engine would last longer if you change the oil every 1,000 miles between changes. It depends on where you want to draw the line. I did very well changing the TP every 12,000 miles on my Subaru. That was about once a year. Would the enigne last longer changing the filter every 6,000 or every 4,000 miles? Probably but 240,000 was enough for me. I averaged an oil drain every 60,000 miles. If you buy a Frantz oil cleaner and change it at the same change intervals you would the Motor Guard the wear rate will be about the same. It would be a lot easier if everyone drove the same kind of car under the same conditions. We see it all the time. Someone that is selling a filter that isn't as good at cleaning oil claiming that you can go up to 24,000 miles between filter changes. Luckily the people that buy TP filters know that they have to be the judge.
I could sell a lot more filters if I made the same claims as the less effective filters. A Motor Guard will remove about 6 lbs of contamination. I think the system depends on how much new make up oil your engine needs. It is more than simply using a filter that can clean oil. TP is like a sponge. It will keep absorbing contamination including water until it can't hold any more then it will start going on thru. TP will absorb contamination all the way thru. All filters that clean oil work the same.
My big filter is a Fleetguard LF 750 housing that uses two rolls of paper towels and three rolls of TP. It will go about 15 timss longer between changes. The stock element is shredded newspapers. People buy the Motor Guard because it uses TP and is the easiest to service of the TP filters. They have the advantage for one pass filtration such as for fuel.

Ralph

 

[P]

Ralph,

When recommending the filter change interval for the Motor Guard M30 I understand you take the worst case scenario--that is severe service driving-I think that's how you say it.

It still appears that Frantz takes a more conservative approach to the filter change interval than you since it recommends time based filter changes in addition to mileage based filter changes

Also, don't most (if not all) car/truck manufacturers recommend time based oil/filter changes in addition to mileage based oil/filter changes?

 

[sifan]

Yesterday I did a complete oil change by draining the oil with 6.5k miles, replacing the full flow oil filter and the TP for the Frantz oil bypass filter. I was shock to see how black the old TP (4.5k miles of service) was, despite the canister was still too hot to touch prior the change. Frantz suggests the TP change interval to be 2~3k miles, and 10~15k miles for the full flow oil filter in cold weather. I will definitely stick to their suggestions. Changing TP based on the temperature of the canister is really not a good idea.

I also replaced the TP in Frantz transmission bypass filter after 5k miles of service. Prior the TP change the canister was kind of warm. I thought the TP must be half way clogged up. It turned out the TP was only slightly soiled at the bottom end. The fluid inside the canister was perfectly clean. I will still stick to Frantz's recommendation of 5k TP change interval just for the sake of introducing additives in new fluid. Again feeling the canister temperature is not a reliable way to judge whether it is time to replace the TP. I guess the transmission oil cooler doesn't have to work hard to keep the oil cool in the winter.

 

[oldman]

Sifan, you must have the cleanest running ECHO manufactured. Your oil should be very clean with an 6.5 mile change.

 

[sifan]

The oil was kind of dirty and looked black. I know it is not a good way of judging the dirtiness of oil by its color. I added a can of Sea Foam into the fuel tank, and used a can of Sea Foam to clean the intake manifold thru the brake vacume hose prior the oil change for decarbonation. I had to change the entire oil fearing the Sea Foam might have thinned it out. I am glad I did it. By the look of the used TP it could have turned into a roll of solid carbon if I left it alone longer. Now I can feel the improvement in throttle response. And the engine starts right up every morning.

I am planning to replace the TP every 2.5k miles right after treating the gas tank with a can of Sea Foam, and to drain the entire oil every 10k miles right after cleaning the intake manifold and throttle body with Sea Foam.