Built For Speed: Looking Back At The Convair 880

GON

$100 Site Donor 2024
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
7,613
Location
Steilacoom, WA
""Performing its first flight on January 27th, 1959, the Convair 880 was produced with a narrow and short fuselage. This build helped it become the fastest commercial quadjet until the Boeing 747’s arrival.""

The Convair division of General Dynamics produced the 880 to compete with the Boeing 707 and Douglas DC-8. The type entered service with Delta Air Lines in May 1960 in the form of the modified 880-22M.

1962's United States Aircraft, Missiles, and Spacecraft publication shares the following about the type:

“The basic Convair 880 was designed for operation from runways of 5,000 to 8,000 feet and for favorable operating costs on medium range up to transcontinental flights. Its sister airliner, the Convair 880-M, offers increased range, fuel capacity, operating weights and shorter runway requirements. It has wing leading edge slats, power boost rudder, and engines with increased thrust. Both Convair 880s can cruise at 615 miles an hour. Range of the basic 880 with first-class payload and normal fuel reserves is 3,200 statute miles. In a first-class, two-abreast seating arrangement as used by initial operators, the 880 carries 84 passengers. In a five across coach configuration it will carry 110 persons. The basic 880 received its FAA airworthiness certificate May 1, 1960, and went into commercial service on May 15, 1960. The first flight of the 880-M was October 3, 1960, and FAA certification was obtained on July 25, 1961.”


AAZbJXW.jpg
 
The different methods used by different aircraft OEMs to develop aircraft with similar cargo/speed/range requirements has always been interesting to me.

Surely this wasn’t much faster than its contemporary, the 707? Wiki lists 707 cruise speed at 896-1000 kph (621 mph).
 
  • Like
Reactions: GON
The different methods used by different aircraft OEMs to develop aircraft with similar cargo/speed/range requirements has always been interesting to me.

Surely this wasn’t much faster than its contemporary, the 707? Wiki lists 707 cruise speed at 896-1000 kph (621 mph).
Wiki cruise speeds aren’t particularly useful. Nobody cruises airlines at True Mph. They’re cruised at Mach number, and how they handle that Mach is what matters. Normal vs. max Mach. Handling. Fuel burn. None of that on Wiki.
 
I have been is some airliners that had a plaque that listed the model and the speed which I imagine it was for the passengers information.
 
I have been is some airliners that had a plaque that listed the model and the speed which I imagine it was for the passengers information.
Yeah - we have cards to hand out (that sort of stopped during the pandemic, just like handing out wings to kids) that list the "speed" of the airplane in MPH. It's sort of a "factoid" - interesting, but not really accurate, because the MPH speed varies with air temp and we often cruise above or below that stated "normal" Mach number. Translating a Mach number to a MPH using standard meteorological conditions doesn't really capture what's going on, but it's like listing the max weight - great for trading cards. Great for a simple sense of scale.
 
It is interesting that many of the older jetliners are said to have MMO numbers of 0.88-0.90 or even 0.91. Although practical speeds were never over M 0.86. And many cruised at 0.78, just like today, for fuel and range reasons. Some planes experienced Mach tuck at high speeds and of course, excessive fuel burn achieving those high Mach numbers.

By way of comparison, our brand new G600 Gulfstream (and our Previous G650ER) uses an MMO of 0.925, and will easily cruise at 0.93 (with the overspeed warning blaring away) 0.91 is normal cruise, and 0.85 is about as slow as it wants to cruise.

Today's airliners are sometimes slower, than yesterday's ones, favoring a M 0.80 cruise.

So while the numbers seem similar, from yesterday's planes and today's hottest busines jets, the reality is that we climb at M 0.87 at around 4000 FPM, and cruise at 0.91. Covering much more ground than the old planes in the same time.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: GON
A319/320/321 VMO 350 ( 25,000 feet and below ) , MMO 0.82.

Normal cruise based on CI ( cost index ) on flight plan which results in Mach speeds between .77 - .80.

Not a huge increase in fuel burn between .78 and .80 but there is once above .80

We never cruise above .80.

Even a privately owned A321 with JATO bottles doing air shows would never come close to matching the performance of 99% of business jets, let alone the G600, even empty with two underweight pilots.

A climb to the max recommended FMS altitude on the A321 is not something we do very often unless very light.

A319/320 can climb to recommend max altitude at max weight shown with no performance issues.

Tighter performance envelope on 321.

FMS max recommended altitude is based on the following:

.3 G, 300 FPM climb, max cruise thrust, speed above min ( before low speed protections kick in ).

Not saying you cannot safely go to the FMS max recommend altitude on the A321 ( weight, OAT ) but most pilots don’t because it takes too long ( ATC might not realize how slow the rate of climb will be unless tell them in advance how many minutes will take ….” requesting slow climb to FL 390 due weight “ ).

A330 ( only other Airbus our airline operates today , so far ) has lots of power, wing and can climb , unrestricted, to max altitude.

Hmm….maybe it’s time to switch but I don’t feel like working Min 16 days versus 7 or 8 I am doing now unless something changes.
 
Last edited:
Gorgeous plane(s). Mush sleeker, svelte and classier than the ***** 707 and 727. The DC-8 was a good looking airliner but the Convairs took the prize in my book for best looking airliners.
 
Off topic , but….

Best looking airliners IMHO ( not in any order ) ….

747, 757, L1011, 707 , VC 10 , Concorde plus some others.

777, 330 look good too , not a fan of the 787 looks.

A350, ugly. Same with A380 ( but it holds supersonic speed record apparently for commercial airliners lol ).

Jet fighters……F14 ( more so depending on paint job ) and F4 in an ugly kind of way.

Tornado is a nice looking aircraft.

Almost forgot……the gorgeous , cool looking F111.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top