Brake Rotors - Most Rust Resistant?
- Thread starter Oldswagon
- Start date
zEAAOSwtnpXm79~Originally Posted by eljefino
Those look awful. I wonder if a more aggressive pad will scour them under daily driving better, keeping them clean longer. You want a pad that's "hard on rotors". IDK what fits that bill, but think semi-metallic could be the way to go. You could also change your driving habits to include a good stomp on the brakes, like for re-bedding, every time you take it out. It looks like your pad is getting cocked sideways a bit, so it probably has some "sticktion" in its bracket which the "good stomp" should help free up, or you can dismantle them when you put the snow tires on and sand down the ears and lube all the important points.
^ This.
If braking doesn't completely remove friction-area rust that has accumulated between drives that aren't even a week apart, something's wrong.
Those look awful. I wonder if a more aggressive pad will scour them under daily driving better, keeping them clean longer. You want a pad that's "hard on rotors". IDK what fits that bill, but think semi-metallic could be the way to go. You could also change your driving habits to include a good stomp on the brakes, like for re-bedding, every time you take it out. It looks like your pad is getting cocked sideways a bit, so it probably has some "sticktion" in its bracket which the "good stomp" should help free up, or you can dismantle them when you put the snow tires on and sand down the ears and lube all the important points.
^ This.
If braking doesn't completely remove friction-area rust that has accumulated between drives that aren't even a week apart, something's wrong.
frozen rotors dot com.
The only way that iron-metallic rotors could be made more rust resistant in the long run would be to add a significant amount of nickel to the iron alloy. I am not aware of any rotor manufacturers that add enough nickel to prevent rust. This would also make the rotors very hard and would probably have a noticeable impact on a rotor's friction coefficient. I suspect that the rotor manufacturers have already tried this. In the short run, rotors can be coated or plated, but this won't last long as either will wear off rather quickly.
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That might be specific to some areas … but hope nobody takes your comments to be accurate in general.
My OEM rotors had extreme corrosion at 5 years from continuous decay … but my coated rotors were mint at 3 years when I traded the truck.
I also think they rinse off cleaner …
My OEM rotors had extreme corrosion at 5 years from continuous decay … but my coated rotors were mint at 3 years when I traded the truck.
I also think they rinse off cleaner …
Originally Posted by Oldswagon
Thank you for the response. I am aware all rotors are pretty much made of cast iron and all will rust with time.
If you look at Raybestos information, they clearly have two grades of iron. For their Element 3 and R Line rotors, they say the iron is "G3000-qualified material" with a max of .004" of runout while for their Specially Truck rotors and performance rotors use "Enhanced Iron Material with a maximum of .002" of run out.
I am not sure if this higher end iron is more rust resistant?
Most people in the service industry around here are convinced the iron used in modern rotors is not the same quality it once was, which is causing more brake rust problems.
They are all gray iron and those differences have to do with carbon and silicon for material toughness and add nothing to corrosion resistance. Most of those higher end ones have been normalized or cryo treated for additional wear and life- has nothing to o with corrosion.
Other than a coating there is little that can be done for corrosion resistance due mainly to the duty this material has to perform.
If you impregnate it with chemicals for corrosion resistance, you alter the friction coefficients and other qualities necessary for a braking application.
If you add alloying ( significantly) such as nickel or chromium for corrosion resistance, you will change temper and hardness and significantly affect braking qualities.( and thermal properties)
There are strong rotors/drums ( they do exist and the technology is widely available) used in some mining applications but the braking loads necessary far exceed automotive braking systems so there would have to be a significant redesign.
Thank you for the response. I am aware all rotors are pretty much made of cast iron and all will rust with time.
If you look at Raybestos information, they clearly have two grades of iron. For their Element 3 and R Line rotors, they say the iron is "G3000-qualified material" with a max of .004" of runout while for their Specially Truck rotors and performance rotors use "Enhanced Iron Material with a maximum of .002" of run out.
I am not sure if this higher end iron is more rust resistant?
Most people in the service industry around here are convinced the iron used in modern rotors is not the same quality it once was, which is causing more brake rust problems.
They are all gray iron and those differences have to do with carbon and silicon for material toughness and add nothing to corrosion resistance. Most of those higher end ones have been normalized or cryo treated for additional wear and life- has nothing to o with corrosion.
Other than a coating there is little that can be done for corrosion resistance due mainly to the duty this material has to perform.
If you impregnate it with chemicals for corrosion resistance, you alter the friction coefficients and other qualities necessary for a braking application.
If you add alloying ( significantly) such as nickel or chromium for corrosion resistance, you will change temper and hardness and significantly affect braking qualities.( and thermal properties)
There are strong rotors/drums ( they do exist and the technology is widely available) used in some mining applications but the braking loads necessary far exceed automotive braking systems so there would have to be a significant redesign.
Humidity is destroying mine, even if driven regularly, the fins just rust so badly on the inside, that they start crumbling. There were piles of rust on the ground after I beat the Ram's front rotors off, the fins were just falling apart. The truck has seen snow & salt, but not that much, and I have always pressure washed off the salt & it's had Fluid Film on it for a couple years, and has no body rust. No way to rustproof rotors, though!
Originally Posted by Lapham3
My first disk brake cars were a '70 1/2 Z28 and a '72 Vega. Only in more recent years have I had the early and heavy rusting experience. I don't know if it's metallurgy or what but it's worse these days year around for me.
Just a guess but now many casting services ( depending on individual recipe and requirements) are using hotter pours ( making a less dense product as it cools to dimension)
That results in a more open grain thus lighter, changes the heat ratio and maybe those contribute to faster corrosion than older models.
I see this a lot on machine and bearing housings where their older counterparts didn't rust like they do and when they fracture there is a grain difference easily visible and they all seem to physically weigh less.
I would imagine the same is for car parts too.
My first disk brake cars were a '70 1/2 Z28 and a '72 Vega. Only in more recent years have I had the early and heavy rusting experience. I don't know if it's metallurgy or what but it's worse these days year around for me.
Just a guess but now many casting services ( depending on individual recipe and requirements) are using hotter pours ( making a less dense product as it cools to dimension)
That results in a more open grain thus lighter, changes the heat ratio and maybe those contribute to faster corrosion than older models.
I see this a lot on machine and bearing housings where their older counterparts didn't rust like they do and when they fracture there is a grain difference easily visible and they all seem to physically weigh less.
I would imagine the same is for car parts too.
If you need a better runout guarantee and NAPA is available, NAPA Ultra Premium rotors have a much better runout spec and mine looked almost new after 2 years of use. Many may not think of Maryland being rust belt, but we get huge amounts of road salt, rain and humidity, believe me, things rust. I had a set of uncoated rotors rust from vanes through to the friction surface in 5 years on my pickup.
Originally Posted by Lapham3
My first disk brake cars were a '70 1/2 Z28 and a '72 Vega. Only in more recent years have I had the early and heavy rusting experience. I don't know if it's metallurgy or what but it's worse these days year around for me.
72 Vega, you replace the body on the old rotors.
My first disk brake cars were a '70 1/2 Z28 and a '72 Vega. Only in more recent years have I had the early and heavy rusting experience. I don't know if it's metallurgy or what but it's worse these days year around for me.
72 Vega, you replace the body on the old rotors.
Why does the brake surface look so bad ? It's normal for those areas to develop a very, very thin coating of surface rust but the first time you use the brakes, you'll clean them off perfectly. That's not happening at all here from the looks of it. It's like your inner brake pad isn't contacting the rotor at all.
Originally Posted by Oldswagon
...I also disassemble and service the brakes at least once a year to ensure they are cleaned and lubricated.
Thing is, It doesn't look like that was a success for you given the wear pattern from your pic. If those inside pads were floating as they should be and biting against the rotor surface flat and true, the rotor wouldn't look like that.
I used to do the yearly break-down, clean and lube too, but now with so many family vehicles I do basic maintenance on, I can't keep up with that.
These days I find it easier to just swap out pads and rotors if I'm going through all that work in my driveway or garage.
Our climate is hopeless for brakes.
...I also disassemble and service the brakes at least once a year to ensure they are cleaned and lubricated.
Thing is, It doesn't look like that was a success for you given the wear pattern from your pic. If those inside pads were floating as they should be and biting against the rotor surface flat and true, the rotor wouldn't look like that.
I used to do the yearly break-down, clean and lube too, but now with so many family vehicles I do basic maintenance on, I can't keep up with that.
These days I find it easier to just swap out pads and rotors if I'm going through all that work in my driveway or garage.
Our climate is hopeless for brakes.
Thanks for all the feedback. I may just try the Raybestos Element 3 rotors. They are well priced and if no rotor will get much more than 4 or 5 winters, why pay double the price?
Originally Posted by JTK
Thing is, It doesn't look like that was a success for you given the wear pattern from your pic. If those inside pads were floating as they should be and biting against the rotor surface flat and true, the rotor wouldn't look like that.
I used to do the yearly break-down, clean and lube too, but now with so many family vehicles I do basic maintenance on, I can't keep up with that.
These days I find it easier to just swap out pads and rotors if I'm going through all that work in my driveway or garage.
Our climate is hopeless for brakes.
The thing is I probably should do the brakes twice a year, I just don't have the time. They were moving well when the were serviced last year, but seized up pretty tight over the winter and were not longer moving freely. My road is loaded with sand and the highway I drive on is loaded with salt. It's a bad combination for keeping brakes moving. So yes, that probably exacerbated the problem.
However, according to this Raybestos video I found, moisture gets under the friction layer on the rotor surface and it delaminate the surface. That is exactly what is happening to my rotors. It's like the "shiney" brake surface flakes off and there is heavy rust underneath. I am sure the pads hanging up was part of the problem but look at this video and the rear rotors look pretty much like the one I posted. And they were only 3 winters versus my 4. I guess rusty brakes are just something I will have to live.
Originally Posted by JTK
Thing is, It doesn't look like that was a success for you given the wear pattern from your pic. If those inside pads were floating as they should be and biting against the rotor surface flat and true, the rotor wouldn't look like that.
I used to do the yearly break-down, clean and lube too, but now with so many family vehicles I do basic maintenance on, I can't keep up with that.
These days I find it easier to just swap out pads and rotors if I'm going through all that work in my driveway or garage.
Our climate is hopeless for brakes.
The thing is I probably should do the brakes twice a year, I just don't have the time. They were moving well when the were serviced last year, but seized up pretty tight over the winter and were not longer moving freely. My road is loaded with sand and the highway I drive on is loaded with salt. It's a bad combination for keeping brakes moving. So yes, that probably exacerbated the problem.
However, according to this Raybestos video I found, moisture gets under the friction layer on the rotor surface and it delaminate the surface. That is exactly what is happening to my rotors. It's like the "shiney" brake surface flakes off and there is heavy rust underneath. I am sure the pads hanging up was part of the problem but look at this video and the rear rotors look pretty much like the one I posted. And they were only 3 winters versus my 4. I guess rusty brakes are just something I will have to live.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Raybestos Element3 coated rotors are getting some rave reviews. Trav had recommended them to me. I just finished rear brakes and rotors and used them on a 2012 Forester driven on Long Island where rust is a fact of life. They are good quality and reasonably priced. Trav lives in the rust belt and had good results with them.
THIS! I have been using these and they are a great deal when bought on rockauto. The one's I have installed have been staying very clean and look great. Of course, I don't live in the salt belt so I cannot attest to their performance there BUT I do see improved results over other non coated rotors. I would recommend you get some Raybestos and try them.
Raybestos Element3 coated rotors are getting some rave reviews. Trav had recommended them to me. I just finished rear brakes and rotors and used them on a 2012 Forester driven on Long Island where rust is a fact of life. They are good quality and reasonably priced. Trav lives in the rust belt and had good results with them.
THIS! I have been using these and they are a great deal when bought on rockauto. The one's I have installed have been staying very clean and look great. Of course, I don't live in the salt belt so I cannot attest to their performance there BUT I do see improved results over other non coated rotors. I would recommend you get some Raybestos and try them.
Originally Posted by HangFire
If you need a better runout guarantee and NAPA is available, NAPA Ultra Premium rotors have a much better runout spec and mine looked almost new after 2 years of use. Many may not think of Maryland being rust belt, but we get huge amounts of road salt, rain and humidity, believe me, things rust. I had a set of uncoated rotors rust from vanes through to the friction surface in 5 years on my pickup.
The price of NAPA Ultra Premium vs OEM, which one would be better?
If you need a better runout guarantee and NAPA is available, NAPA Ultra Premium rotors have a much better runout spec and mine looked almost new after 2 years of use. Many may not think of Maryland being rust belt, but we get huge amounts of road salt, rain and humidity, believe me, things rust. I had a set of uncoated rotors rust from vanes through to the friction surface in 5 years on my pickup.
The price of NAPA Ultra Premium vs OEM, which one would be better?
I hear ya. I was rebuilding twice per year but I think I can get down to just once now, like in the spring. In my case, I used to park on a dirt driveway and lived close to a busy road--so, humidity rises up from the ground, plus there was a fair amount of wash from cars driving by. New house has a paved driveway (and the cars can go in the garage, wahoo!), and I'm further away from a less busy road, so my variables have changed.
Not sure there is much that can be done here, other than
-busting apart the parts yearly or twice a year
-braking harder--you're not going to years and years of use, so you might as well be harder on them--they might respond positively
-keep spare parts on the shelf
Not sure there is much that can be done here, other than
-busting apart the parts yearly or twice a year
-braking harder--you're not going to years and years of use, so you might as well be harder on them--they might respond positively
-keep spare parts on the shelf
Same situation for me olds.
It's the mix of dirt, sand grit and salt the roads are "treated" with that is the majority of the issue.
It's the mix of dirt, sand grit and salt the roads are "treated" with that is the majority of the issue.
Originally Posted by Dave9
Did you see some false information somewhere that led you astray from reality ---
...do you have evidence that is happening?
Yes, Dave.
Almost daily on BITOG.
Did you see some false information somewhere that led you astray from reality ---
...do you have evidence that is happening?
Yes, Dave.
Almost daily on BITOG.
Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by HangFire
If you need a better runout guarantee and NAPA is available, NAPA Ultra Premium rotors have a much better runout spec and mine looked almost new after 2 years of use. Many may not think of Maryland being rust belt, but we get huge amounts of road salt, rain and humidity, believe me, things rust. I had a set of uncoated rotors rust from vanes through to the friction surface in 5 years on my pickup.
The price of NAPA Ultra Premium vs OEM, which one would be better?
NAPA Ultra Premiums (combined with ApaptiveOne pads) are the only replacement rotors I've found that looked flat, shiny and almost new after years of use.
There may be better deals or better rotors, there certainly are lots of choices. I do not believe as some here do, that they are the same alloy and spec as some cheaper rotors, which I have also used.
Originally Posted by HangFire
If you need a better runout guarantee and NAPA is available, NAPA Ultra Premium rotors have a much better runout spec and mine looked almost new after 2 years of use. Many may not think of Maryland being rust belt, but we get huge amounts of road salt, rain and humidity, believe me, things rust. I had a set of uncoated rotors rust from vanes through to the friction surface in 5 years on my pickup.
The price of NAPA Ultra Premium vs OEM, which one would be better?
NAPA Ultra Premiums (combined with ApaptiveOne pads) are the only replacement rotors I've found that looked flat, shiny and almost new after years of use.
There may be better deals or better rotors, there certainly are lots of choices. I do not believe as some here do, that they are the same alloy and spec as some cheaper rotors, which I have also used.
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