brake fluid change required to pass PA inspection?

[crashz]

I agree with the posters above, its a regular maintenance thing and it really does help save the calipers. But as SC mentioned, they should be doing the back brake flush as they replace the pads, so its a bit of a double dip.

Ah - vehicle inspections. New Hampshire just eliminated them. The state that first used road salt and is an "insurance is optional" state, just eliminated safety inspections. A stones throw away from Weedachusetts. I'll avoid going down the political rabbit hole, but I fear that this was a bad mistake.

 

[D60]

Here in Germany when the fluid to them looks non-new they test it via a tester for water content.

Words is, to pass, it generally needs to be 2 year ish young.
I just had my car for 2 years and got new brake fluid at the 20000 mile mark.

We had a shop here like that. Not surprisingly brakes were their specialty and [insert town] Brake was their name.

From what I saw, they never tested a vehicle that didn't need new fluid. Funny how that works. Kinda like how those buddies of Mr Cruise bring you in with the guise of "we'll give you a free evaluation to see if you need any paid sessions." Hmmm....

 

[IndyIan]

Son’s 2020 Nissan Sentra due for Pa safety inspection (already such a scam). Needed rear brakes and rotors, not surprised. So I had a choice to leave with the car and get the work done elsewhere and get re-inspected, or let them fix it during this appointment. The brakes and rotors were $350 ish which was fair enough. However, they would not do the work without doing a brake fluid flush. Maybe I am old school, but a flush requirement (not suggestion) on a 6 year old car seemed unnecessary. But again, to refuse meant taking the car elsewhere, getting the work done and getting re-inspected. Time has value so I conceded on the $100 for the flush. No real way to tell if they even did it.
Is that a thing on cars now? My wife and I get new cars every 2 or 3 years so this never comes up, but my son is not on our luxury plan for car replacements as a college kid….

I guess its really a $450 rear brake job? or was the bill $350-brake parts, $100-brake flush, plus labor? Who knows, maybe he had a car with nasty brake fluid that passed the inspection, but then a brake caliper piston stuck the next day and he had to eat the repair, or got his wrist slapped?
Seems like he could just be wallet flushing, or realizing he under quoted the brake job and needed $100 more? Doing a rear brake job for $450 seems to be the going rate? So I guess in the end you did OK?

 

[dnewton3]

As we all know, the OEM statements based on miles and time are, frankly, just CYA statements which cover them with no real care for the end user.

Think about it ... How much of a stretch would it be for the same logic (fluid replacement) to be applied to engine oil or transmission fluid or diff fluid?

Dealer Service Advisor:
"Gosh, Mr. Smith, I'd love to pass your truck's inspection but I see that you haven't replaced the engine oil; it's overdue by two weeks per the 3 month "severe service" limit. You know, the engine oil could be bad and cause the engine to seize, and you'd cause an accident in the middle of an intersection ... But we can change it for you for $99 and you'll pass inspection and be on your way."

Dealer Service Advisor:
"Well, Ms. Jones, the coolant is overdue for replacement based on miles, and the concern is that the car might overheat, and you'd lose power on the highway during rush hour and be involved in an accident. But we can change it for you for $149, which includes the disposal fees."


As much as these seem farcical, it's pretty much the same logic as the brake fluid being changed.
Just because the OE states "X" miles or "Y" months, doesn't make the fluid bad and we all know it. Especially if the limit is 2 years; that's ridiculous!

Just because something could be bad, doesn't make it automatically so just because an arbitrary limit has been reached.

Fluids typically have specs; that's so that the performance expectations are met. API has lube specs (GF-6, GL-5, etc). DOT fluid specs for brakes (DOT 3 or DOT4 for boiling points). But those fluid specs do NOT have lifecycle statements attached to them. Brake fluid changes are just like engine oils in regard to maintenance. Those statements in the manuals are typically "recommendations", not "requirements". And if it's a "recommendation", then passing a safety inspection should not be predicated on that statement.



Rant over.

 

[D60]

Also have we really gotten this far into a brake fluid thread and no one has misspelled hygroscopic yet? If so, internet record!!

 

[ls973800]

Is brake fluid flush/replacement required for PA inspection? The title of this topic should be changed to "Repair shop would not do brake work unless the fluid was flushed or exchanged". PA is NOT the problem here.

No, a brake fluid flush is not a mandatory requirement for a PA car inspection, but the brake system will be inspected for leaks, low fluid, and other issues that could cause it to fail. Inspectors will check if the fluid is contaminated and if the brake system is in good working order, which may lead to a recommendation for a flush.

 

[Hall]

But again, to refuse meant taking the car elsewhere

You don't get to tell them how to operate their shop. You have two simple choices: Leave or follow their 'policy'.

Maybe I am old school,

$350 for pads and rotors at a shop, plus $100 for brake fluid flush, is a steal today.

 

[D60]

You don't get to tell them how to operate their shop. You have two simple choices: Leave or follow their 'policy'.


$350 for pads and rotors at a shop, plus $100 for brake fluid flush, is a steal today.

I agree. I pretty much do $400 per axle these days even though most brake kits cost me $150 to $200. Although I always try do slider pins and boots (if readily available) and I think most shops skip that.

By the time I factor in parts markup, labor, overhead and shop supplies this is really where I need to be to keep the lights on and make a little profit -- which is sorta the whole point after all. I mostly type this to convince myself I'm not being unreasonable. But any less and I might as well go walk the dog because what's the point of working for free/near free....

 

[dnewton3]

https://www.pa.gov/agencies/dmv/vehicle-services/inspection-and-safety-requirements

https://www.pa.gov/content/dam/copa...als/pub_45-inspections-regulations/pub-45.pdf

Per the official PA document (139 PDF pages), there are six instances where "brake fluid" is mentioned. (basically separated into passenger vehicles, trucks, trailers, motorcycles, etc).

ALL REFERENCES say essentially this:
"The brake lining and brake fluids shall be of type approved by the vehicle manufacturer or shall meet the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) standards Appendix A (relating to minimum requirements for motor vehicle brake lining - SAE J998)."

IOW, the fluid specs in the vehicle manual (typically DOT 3 or DOT4) are the only thing that the official state inspection requires in regard to brake fluid. NOT fluid changes, but fluid type (specs).



As I said before, it's total bovine manure that passing a state safety inspection is predicated on a brake fluid change. The OP was likely coerced at the insistence of the service advisor at the dealership. I wasn't there; I don't know what was said - only what we were told here in this thread.

Now, there is nothing wrong with a dealership "recommending" a fluid change. But they cannot "require" it as part of passing the inspection. One could make the argument that if the brake fluid were below the "Low" demarcation on the reservoir, then they could fail it due to "low" fluid. But that wasn't the case here in this thread per the OPs statement. And being "low" on brake fluid would not necessitate a fluid exchange; just a top off.

Simply put: they cannot fail a vehicle for the age of the fluid; that's not in the criteria of the inspection. They can only require it meets the fluid "type" (spec).

 

[97prizm]

Son’s 2020 Nissan Sentra due for Pa safety inspection (already such a scam). Needed rear brakes and rotors, not surprised. So I had a choice to leave with the car and get the work done elsewhere and get re-inspected, or let them fix it during this appointment. The brakes and rotors were $350 ish which was fair enough. However, they would not do the work without doing a brake fluid flush. Maybe I am old school, but a flush requirement (not suggestion) on a 6 year old car seemed unnecessary. But again, to refuse meant taking the car elsewhere, getting the work done and getting re-inspected. Time has value so I conceded on the $100 for the flush. No real way to tell if they even did it.
Is that a thing on cars now? My wife and I get new cars every 2 or 3 years so this never comes up, but my son is not on our luxury plan for car replacements as a college kid….

Clean brake fluid is imperative on modern cars with electronic traction control, and ABS. $100 IS DEFINITELY a rip off. I would have asked where in PA rules does it require new brake fluid to pass inspection. No proof no dice.

 

[SC Maintenance]

m

https://www.pa.gov/agencies/dmv/vehicle-services/inspection-and-safety-requirements

https://www.pa.gov/content/dam/copa...als/pub_45-inspections-regulations/pub-45.pdf

Per the official PA document (139 PDF pages), there are six instances where brake "fluid" is mentioned.
ALL of them say essentially this:
"The brake lining and brake fluids shall be of type approved by the vehicle manufacturer or shall meet the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) standards Appendix A (relating to minimum requirements for motor vehicle brake lining - SAE J998)."

IOW, the fluid specs in the manual (typically DOT 3 or DOT4) are the only thing that the official state inspection require. NOT fluid changes, but fluid type (specs).



As I said before, it's total bovine manure that passing a state safety inspection is predicated on a brake fluid change.

Now, there is nothing wrong with a dealership "recommending" a fluid change. But they cannot "require" it as part of passing the inspection.
One could make the argument that if the brake fluid were below the demarcation on the reservoir, then they could fail due to "low" fluid. But that wasn't the case here.

Simply put: they cannot fail a vehicle for the age of the fluid; that's not in the criteria of the inspection. They can only "inspect" the fluid type (spec).

I don't think anything here said it was required.

The rear brakes needed replacement to pass inspection. The shop policy was to flush the brakes. The OP had the option to take it somewhere else and return for inspection, or pay them. He chose to pay them.

Shops can create whatever policy they like. Its there shop.

He should have taken it elsewhere if he didn't like it. But he mentioned time is money - so he stayed.

 

[GW.]

The big turn off for me is the $100 up charge for the “flush” with most likely BG products. A simple bleed or vacuum bleed would have been included or at discount for overlap. Forcing a flush is a bad policy.

 

[D60]

Clean brake fluid is imperative on modern cars with electronic traction control, and ABS. $100 IS DEFINITELY a rip off. I would have asked where in PA rules does it require new brake fluid to pass inspection. No proof no dice.

$100 is reasonable-ish if they actually cracked all four bleeders. We had mention here that it's not uncommon for a brake fluid "exchange" to just be sucking the reservoir and refilling. That may be internet lore, but at the same time it (sadly) wouldn't surprise me.

Honestly, touching bleeders in PA sounds terrifying. OP should look for evidence of this. I service a 2nd Gen Ram that spent a portion of its life in PA and that frame is questionable at best...

 

[Hall]

it's total bovine manure that passing a state safety inspection is predicated on a brake fluid change. The OP was likely coerced at the insistence of the service advisor at the dealership. I wasn't there; I don't know what was said - only what we were told here in this thread.

Now, there is nothing wrong with a dealership "recommending" a fluid change. But they cannot "require" it as part of passing the inspection.

I would have asked where in PA rules does it require new brake fluid to pass inspection. No proof no dice.

I realize we only have what the OP is saying, but there's no indication the shop required this in order to pass inspection. The shop's policy is they do a brake fluid flush on brake jobs. That's it. Don't like it, go elsewhere.

$100 IS DEFINITELY a rip off.

No, it's not. Getting anything (other than tire rotation, etc) done in a shop for $100 is a deal. Don't mention "DIY" either.

 

[SOUNDMAN5000]

I recall when South Carolina had state inspections...NO LONGER ! It was a joke and was all about who you knew at the local service station and if you had a extra $20 in your hand right for the guy doing the test.

However, one year I was beyond poor at 17 and had slick back tires, I had to travel to 3 gas stations to find one who would pass my car.

The next day a heavy rain storm and red mud from a construction site set my car into a 360 tail spin and into oncoming traffic.

I tried to say my car passed inspection the day prior but didn't fly with the Police, I got a ticket for my slick tires...

 

[JohnnyG]

Mercedes calls for brake fluid change every two years.

 

[The_Jeff]

This is the same thing as if you went in for inspection and needed one strut but they quoted a pair, plus sway bar end links because they break. Or you needed one tire but had AWD so they quoted two or four. Or if they always sell hardware kits with drum shoes, etc etc. They don't have to do it your half-fast way.

Maine's inspection manual is vague WRT brake fluid:

§1911. Hydraulic brake fluid1. Definition. "Hydraulic brake fluid" means the liquid medium through which force is transmitted to the brakes in the hydraulic brake system of a vehicle.[PL 1993, c. 683, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); PL 1993, c. 683, Pt. B, §5 (AFF).]2. Requirement. Hydraulic brake fluid must be distributed and serviced with due regard for the safety of the occupants of the vehicle and the public.[PL 1993, c. 683, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); PL 1993, c. 683, Pt. B, §5 (AFF).]3. Rules. The Commissioner of Public Safety may adopt rules establishing standards and specifications for hydraulic brake fluid that must correlate with and, so far as practicable, conform to current standards and specifications of the Society of Automotive Engineers applicable to the fluid.[PL 1993, c. 683, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); PL 1993, c. 683, Pt. B, §5 (AFF).]4. Prohibition. A person may not distribute, have for sale, offer for sale, sell or service a vehicle with hydraulic brake fluid unless that fluid complies with the requirements of this section.

 

[Wireman1987]

Two issues here ..

- what is required to pass the safety inspection
- what is considered good maintenance practice

I find it incredulous that a fluid change would be "required" to pass. How do they know if it's bad or not? Do they test it? If so, to what standard? Visual inspections are not a reliable indication of fluids (as we all know with oil, coolant, etc). Is there an OEM "requirement" at "Xxxx" miles or "Y" months? Or is that OEM statement just a "recommendation"??? With brake pads and rotors, there are certain indicators (pads worn to the feelers; discs and drums can be measured for thickness, etc). But brake fluid? What would stop them from saying any fluid needs replaced to pass? You could have had the fluid done just last year, and they'd probably still say it needs replaced ...

The above aside, it's not a bad thing to have the fluid done every 5 years or more often.

i am on the fence 50/50 - up-selling and to warranty the brake parts and service. I don't see it being a necessity to pass a state vehicle inspection.. however, can't the OP contact his state motor vehicle or highway patrol dept to inquire if the above mentioned is in fact a requirement during brake services and or vehicle inspections?

 

[Wireman1987]

found this tidbit of information on my wife's Rogue..

**The brake fluid in a 2024 Nissan Rogue should be replaced every 10,000 miles (16,000 km) or 12 months, whichever comes first. Regular maintenance is important to ensure braking efficiency and prevent corrosion in the braking system. vs my body style Rogue

**For a 2014-2020 Nissan Rogue, it is generally recommended to change the brake fluid every 20,000 miles or 24 months, but this can vary based on driving conditions. Always consult your owner's manual for the most accurate maintenance schedule specific to your vehicle.


**For a 2020 Nissan Sentra, it is recommended to change the brake fluid every 20,000 miles or every 24 to 36 months, depending on driving conditions and vehicle usage. Regular checks and maintenance are important to ensure safe braking performance.


OP - refer to the vehicles Owner's manual. however I wouldn't worry at the mileage and years your pockets weren't raked through the coals.

 

[WeyounDS9]

PS: I'd would be unthinkable for me to go 6 yrs w/o a brake system bleed