Bound to DEX-COOL for Warranty

[ZGRider]

Chemical analysis of Dexcool has proven that Dexcool when exposed to air pockets in the cooling system reacts with the cast iron parts(hence the rusty color) It has nothing to do with mixing with other coolants. The manufacturer literature states that the coolants can be mixed but the long-life properties are shortened.
As long as Dexcool isn't exposed to air, it doesn't give problems. That is the real trick however, when the intake manifold gaskets fail and allow air in the system. The active ingredient 2EHA is a plastisizer and will degrade some types of plastic gaskets. The reason this site is here is to share facts, not hearsay, do some research people.

 

[JustinH]

I was reading that dexcool had problems with motors with iron blocks and aluminum heads.

In all aluminum motors it is not a problem.

Honestly, people go by the book, and have 5 year old coolant in the car before they reach 100k miles..

Coolant needs to be replaced every 2-3 years no matter what, its cheap enough and easy to do.

Its just neglecting maintenance.

 

[zulu]

Mabye I'm getting lax in my old age, but as I read through my owners manual in all of my GM vehicles, I see on trend. They aren't imperative about much, EXCEPT DEX-COOL. There are no less than 10 pages detailing it's use, requirements, and service schedules. Obviously, they have something to say when they use up that much space about the cooling system.

I've had plenty of cars where I've tried to scoot around warranty issues, but it rarely ever works. If you take a GM vehcile in for a cooling related issue and are NOT USING DEX-COOL, as they REQUIRE per their explicit instructions, you're not going to get very far. Believe me, everybody and their dog has detailed and documented the shorcomings of Dex-Cool. They exist, and nobody is denying that. But with over 40 MILLION vehicles on the road, over 98% of them don't have any issues. It's the ones with neglected service intervals and some of the old iron-block V6s with design flaws that are the bulk of the class action lawsuit claims.

I'm not saying that there aren't better fluids out there. There are, believe me. But GM makes it a point to hinge their warranty on this fluid, so until I am OUT OF WARRANTY, I will abide by their requirements.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
I was reading that dexcool had problems with motors with iron blocks and aluminum heads.

In all aluminum motors it is not a problem.

Honestly, people go by the book, and have 5 year old coolant in the car before they reach 100k miles..

Coolant needs to be replaced every 2-3 years no matter what, its cheap enough and easy to do.

Its just neglecting maintenance.

Aluminum engines typically have iron cylinder liners with coolant circulating through the iron parts as well as the aluminum.

 

[Big Jim]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Chemical analysis of Dexcool has proven that Dexcool when exposed to air pockets in the cooling system reacts with the cast iron parts(hence the rusty color) It has nothing to do with mixing with other coolants. The manufacturer literature states that the coolants can be mixed but the long-life properties are shortened.
As long as Dexcool isn't exposed to air, it doesn't give problems. That is the real trick however, when the intake manifold gaskets fail and allow air in the system. The active ingredient 2EHA is a plastisizer and will degrade some types of plastic gaskets. The reason this site is here is to share facts, not hearsay, do some research people.


If you are dedicated about the facts, not rumors, do more research on 2EHA. The claims about it softening plastic are not substantiated.

 

[ZGRider]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: JustinH
I was reading that dexcool had problems with motors with iron blocks and aluminum heads.

In all aluminum motors it is not a problem.

Honestly, people go by the book, and have 5 year old coolant in the car before they reach 100k miles..

Coolant needs to be replaced every 2-3 years no matter what, its cheap enough and easy to do.


Its just neglecting maintenance.

Aluminum engines typically have iron cylinder liners with coolant circulating through the iron parts as well as the aluminum.


Modern aluminum engines typically do not have iron cylinders anymore, they have a hard-coated cylinder and coolant only touches aluminum. That is why these engines are not rebuildable. Look at any Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, even Cadillac and you will see what I mean. Coated cylinders conduct heat better and are cheaper to build. Motorcycles went through this years ago. Even Harleys don't have iron sleeves anymore. Dexcool doesn't seem to have problems with aluminum engines as much as cast-iron blocks. With that in mind, why doesn't GM void the warranty because people don't use GM motor oil? The answer is because it is against the law. GM cannot void a warranty because the owner doesn't use GM fluids, all the owner is required to do is use compatible and approved fluids. Prestone and Zerex are approved for use in GM vehicles and so GM cannot void the warranty strictly for use of these fluids. Again, GM thrives on hearsay, they love for you not to know the facts. I personally like GM vehicles, but loathe Dexcool. I would have no problem draining that [censored] out right there on the dealer parking lot the day I buy the vehicle.

 

[ZGRider]

Originally Posted By: Big Jim
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Chemical analysis of Dexcool has proven that Dexcool when exposed to air pockets in the cooling system reacts with the cast iron parts(hence the rusty color) It has nothing to do with mixing with other coolants. The manufacturer literature states that the coolants can be mixed but the long-life properties are shortened.
As long as Dexcool isn't exposed to air, it doesn't give problems. That is the real trick however, when the intake manifold gaskets fail and allow air in the system. The active ingredient 2EHA is a plastisizer and will degrade some types of plastic gaskets. The reason this site is here is to share facts, not hearsay, do some research people.


If you are dedicated about the facts, not rumors, do more research on 2EHA. The claims about it softening plastic are not substantiated.

So, is that why VW, BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler, and Ford rejected Dexcool? Because it doesn't degrade plactic parts? If not, then why did they reject Dexcool? They all tried it and decided not to use it. Who said it doesn't degrade plastic? GM? Havoline? Chemical analysis proves out that it does degrade certain types of plastic and it is a plastisizer or GM woukdn't have had to change their intake manifold gaskets that didn't cause problems with green antifreeze and did with Dexcool. What is a simpler explanation? Dexcool damages plastic gaskets? or GM just started making inferior gaskets at precisely the same time they started using Dexcool? For those of you who refuse to use anything but Dexcool, nothing I say is going to matter, but for those of you that are willing to look at both sides of the coin maybe this makes sense. Keep on draining Dexcool every 2 or 3 years to try to be safe or use another coolant that actaully is long-life and will last 5 yrs or 100,000 miles like G-O5. If you are going to drain it that often, why not use green antifreeze. It lasts that long, and it doesn't turn to brown sludge when exposed to air, and it doesn't harm gaskets.

 

[Big Jim]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Originally Posted By: Big Jim
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Chemical analysis of Dexcool has proven that Dexcool when exposed to air pockets in the cooling system reacts with the cast iron parts(hence the rusty color) It has nothing to do with mixing with other coolants. The manufacturer literature states that the coolants can be mixed but the long-life properties are shortened.
As long as Dexcool isn't exposed to air, it doesn't give problems. That is the real trick however, when the intake manifold gaskets fail and allow air in the system. The active ingredient 2EHA is a plastisizer and will degrade some types of plastic gaskets. The reason this site is here is to share facts, not hearsay, do some research people.


If you are dedicated about the facts, not rumors, do more research on 2EHA. The claims about it softening plastic are not substantiated.

So, is that why VW, BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler, and Ford rejected Dexcool? Because it doesn't degrade plactic parts? If not, then why did they reject Dexcool? They all tried it and decided not to use it. Who said it doesn't degrade plastic? GM? Havoline? Chemical analysis proves out that it does degrade certain types of plastic and it is a plastisizer or GM woukdn't have had to change their intake manifold gaskets that didn't cause problems with green antifreeze and did with Dexcool. What is a simpler explanation? Dexcool damages plastic gaskets? or GM just started making inferior gaskets at precisely the same time they started using Dexcool? For those of you who refuse to use anything but Dexcool, nothing I say is going to matter, but for those of you that are willing to look at both sides of the coin maybe this makes sense. Keep on draining Dexcool every 2 or 3 years to try to be safe or use another coolant that actaully is long-life and will last 5 yrs or 100,000 miles like G-O5. If you are going to drain it that often, why not use green antifreeze. It lasts that long, and it doesn't turn to brown sludge when exposed to air, and it doesn't harm gaskets.


Do you have any studies or analysis that can back up your claims?

 

[onion]

There was testimony to that effect in the Dexcool class action lawsuit that GM just lost a few months back. I'm not interested enough to dig up the link, but it has been posted on this forum before. You could find it with a little time spent on the search engine.

 

[SilverC6]

Here's an attorney's site explaining the class action suit and settlement.

http://www.girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html

I just got the leaking intake gasket repaired on my 2001 Lumina last Friday.

My repair was too late to get in on the class action suit.

GM's not spending millions of dollars because there is no correlation between Dex-cool and the intake gasket failures.

 

[ZGRider]

Originally Posted By: Big Jim
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Originally Posted By: Big Jim
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Chemical analysis of Dexcool has proven that Dexcool when exposed to air pockets in the cooling system reacts with the cast iron parts(hence the rusty color) It has nothing to do with mixing with other coolants. The manufacturer literature states that the coolants can be mixed but the long-life properties are shortened.
As long as Dexcool isn't exposed to air, it doesn't give problems. That is the real trick however, when the intake manifold gaskets fail and allow air in the system. The active ingredient 2EHA is a plastisizer and will degrade some types of plastic gaskets. The reason this site is here is to share facts, not hearsay, do some research people.


If you are dedicated about the facts, not rumors, do more research on 2EHA. The claims about it softening plastic are not substantiated.

So, is that why VW, BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler, and Ford rejected Dexcool? Because it doesn't degrade plactic parts? If not, then why did they reject Dexcool? They all tried it and decided not to use it. Who said it doesn't degrade plastic? GM? Havoline? Chemical analysis proves out that it does degrade certain types of plastic and it is a plastisizer or GM woukdn't have had to change their intake manifold gaskets that didn't cause problems with green antifreeze and did with Dexcool. What is a simpler explanation? Dexcool damages plastic gaskets? or GM just started making inferior gaskets at precisely the same time they started using Dexcool? For those of you who refuse to use anything but Dexcool, nothing I say is going to matter, but for those of you that are willing to look at both sides of the coin maybe this makes sense. Keep on draining Dexcool every 2 or 3 years to try to be safe or use another coolant that actaully is long-life and will last 5 yrs or 100,000 miles like G-O5. If you are going to drain it that often, why not use green antifreeze. It lasts that long, and it doesn't turn to brown sludge when exposed to air, and it doesn't harm gaskets.


Do you have any studies or analysis that can back up your claims?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so here ya go:

http://www.zillamotorsports.com/DEX/

Notice in the pictures that there is no problems with the gasket except where the Dexcool made contact with the gasket and also notice the low mileage at which the damage had occurred. If this doesn't convince the doubters, then they must work for Havoline or GM.

 

[ZGRider]

What? No more comments? You Dexcool afficianados still there?

 

[onion]

Hey... we're all oil-nerds here. No need for chest-beating.

 

[Big Jim]

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
What? No more comments? You Dexcool afficianados still there?


Hardly a controlled experiment. Still interesting though. Also still too many unaccounted for variables do draw the conclusions he has.

I guess from this theory none of the cars I've run Dexcool in had nylon 66 based gaskets. Or maybe they did. Who knows? I know they didn't fail.

I also know that their cooling systems were far cleaner than anything that ran the old green "snot of death".

 

[ZGRider]

BigJim: Did you ever examine the lower intake manifold gaskets? Did you own the cars long enough for them to fail? Those are variables too! Even though you may change the Dexcool in your cars before it can turn to sludge, it is still damaging your LIM gaskets. Just think, GM engineers examine hundreds of LIM gaskets and they let this go on for years. I'd be willing to bet that if you went to a GM dealership and looked at all the failed gaskets they replace in a month they would all look like the failed ones in the photos.

 

[artificialist]

GM V6 intake gaskets fail because they have a plastic skeleton that holds the soft rubber gasket bits in place. The plastic cracks, and then the soft rubber gasket deforms and leaks.

Some replacement gaskets have a metal skeleton to solve this problem.

 

[onion]

Yes, it's a [censored] poor design, and I'm quite sure that they would fail regularly with or without Dexcool. But there is ample reason to believe that Dexcool contributes to the problem. Combine that with Dexcools well-documented propensity to turn to sludge... and I really don't know why anybody would willingly use the stuff.

 

[wapacz]

The newer v6s and probably 2.4s don't run their coolant through the manifold. Which is were all the problems happened in the older v6s.

 

[Nyquist]

You are right. It's all oil.

I was floored (in a good way) when the technician at the dealer said that an oil change wasn't necessary after replacing the LIM gasket on my 3.5L. I did it myself anyway. That was also where I had my first experience with green oil from UV dye.

 

[SilverC6]

My shop changed the oil with the gasket change and recommended I follow up with another change at 500 miles.

Sounded like good advice to me.