It seems some BMW's are set up with alot of negative camber especially in the rear. Why do they do this, are they compensating for a bad chassis design. Could you run less negative camber if you wished?? Wouldnt this cause rear tires to wear out much faster.
BMW Negative camber
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Negative camber is good for handling.
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Originally Posted By: raaizin
It seems some BMW's are set up with alot of negative camber especially in the rear. Why do they do this, are they compensating for a bad chassis design. Could you run less negative camber if you wished?? Wouldnt this cause rear tires to wear out much faster.
Yeah, it's the horrible chassis design......
It seems some BMW's are set up with alot of negative camber especially in the rear. Why do they do this, are they compensating for a bad chassis design. Could you run less negative camber if you wished?? Wouldnt this cause rear tires to wear out much faster.
Yeah, it's the horrible chassis design......
Stock BMW alignment specs often compromise tire wear in favor of having good handling that is also safe for most drivers. Negative camber in the rear is just one such feature: it helps put power down in a corner without causing oversteer.
Many models also run some toe-in, especially in the rear. This makes the car slightly less eager to change direction, but it also makes oversteer easier to control. Again, this compromises tire wear in favor of good handling characteristics for most drivers.
As for chassis design, I think it's safe to say BMW doesn't have anything to "compensate for" in that department. BMWs are all about the chassis.
My car's rear camber and toe are both adjustable. I'm not sure about other models. I would imagine you could dial those things out to save your tires and probably some MPG as well. Then again, if you want good tire wear and MPG, why buy a BMW in the first place?
Many models also run some toe-in, especially in the rear. This makes the car slightly less eager to change direction, but it also makes oversteer easier to control. Again, this compromises tire wear in favor of good handling characteristics for most drivers.
As for chassis design, I think it's safe to say BMW doesn't have anything to "compensate for" in that department. BMWs are all about the chassis.
My car's rear camber and toe are both adjustable. I'm not sure about other models. I would imagine you could dial those things out to save your tires and probably some MPG as well. Then again, if you want good tire wear and MPG, why buy a BMW in the first place?
Really? A joke right??
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Then again, if you want good tire wear and MPG, why buy a BMW in the first place?
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Then again, if you want good tire wear and MPG, why buy a BMW in the first place?
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Why do you think he meant it as a joke?
Who buys a BMW if they want to max out MPG?
Who buys a BMW if they want to max out MPG?
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Then again, if you want good tire wear and MPG, why buy a BMW in the first place?
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
Then again, if you want good tire wear and MPG, why buy a BMW in the first place?
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
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Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Then again, if you want good tire wear and MPG, why buy a BMW in the first place?
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
You are missing something here.
BMW's are set up to handle, they are not setup like a Civic. It is true that most owners will never push the car hard enough to appreciate why BMW sets up the cars the way they do.
However, those of us who DO push our cars (and I push my cars hard) can appreciate why the engineers setup the cars in the manner in which they do.
Not only that, but as d00df00d stated, they are FULLY adjustable. One can "un-BMW" the suspension on a BMW, but then that takes away from the car's character. Mind you, if you aren't using the car like it should be used, then you likely wouldn't notice.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Then again, if you want good tire wear and MPG, why buy a BMW in the first place?
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
You are missing something here.
BMW's are set up to handle, they are not setup like a Civic. It is true that most owners will never push the car hard enough to appreciate why BMW sets up the cars the way they do.
However, those of us who DO push our cars (and I push my cars hard) can appreciate why the engineers setup the cars in the manner in which they do.
Not only that, but as d00df00d stated, they are FULLY adjustable. One can "un-BMW" the suspension on a BMW, but then that takes away from the car's character. Mind you, if you aren't using the car like it should be used, then you likely wouldn't notice.
lots of car manufacturers run negative camber in the rear and almost no camber in the front. Honda and Acura is one of them.
OK, back to the poster's question. Since BMW's are "fully adjustable", how would you "un-BMW" a car so you will not trash tires. An honest question, not trying to troll or flame or anything like that.
[/quote]
Mind you, if you aren't using the car like it should be used, then you likely wouldn't notice. [/quote]
Funny you mentioned that, I work at the GM Lansing Grand River plant that builds the Cadillac CTS-V and when I do get in one I never get the chance to get it past 30 MPH. (many watching eyes) so I will agree with you on that.
Mind you, if you aren't using the car like it should be used, then you likely wouldn't notice. [/quote]
Funny you mentioned that, I work at the GM Lansing Grand River plant that builds the Cadillac CTS-V and when I do get in one I never get the chance to get it past 30 MPH. (many watching eyes) so I will agree with you on that.
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Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
OK, back to the poster's question. Since BMW's are "fully adjustable", how would you "un-BMW" a car so you will not trash tires. An honest question, not trying to troll or flame or anything like that.
Set the camber and toe at zero in the rear on an alignment rack. Simple as that
OK, back to the poster's question. Since BMW's are "fully adjustable", how would you "un-BMW" a car so you will not trash tires. An honest question, not trying to troll or flame or anything like that.
Set the camber and toe at zero in the rear on an alignment rack. Simple as that
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
When was the last time you've driven a BMW the way it was meant to be driven?
I must admit, it's been a long time for me as well. However, I've got my rear camber dialed in pretty close to zero. No uneven treadwear to speak of. My MPG is not bad, but again, if I wanted good MPG, I would have bought a Corolla or a Prius. My point was, nobody walks into a BMW dealership saying, "Hey, I'm here because I want a car with good MPG!"
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
When was the last time you've driven a BMW the way it was meant to be driven?
I must admit, it's been a long time for me as well. However, I've got my rear camber dialed in pretty close to zero. No uneven treadwear to speak of. My MPG is not bad, but again, if I wanted good MPG, I would have bought a Corolla or a Prius. My point was, nobody walks into a BMW dealership saying, "Hey, I'm here because I want a car with good MPG!"
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
When was the last time you've driven a BMW the way it was meant to be driven?
I must admit, it's been a long time for me as well. However, I've got my rear camber dialed in pretty close to zero. No uneven treadwear to speak of. My MPG is not bad, but again, if I wanted good MPG, I would have bought a Corolla or a Prius. My point was, nobody walks into a BMW dealership saying, "Hey, I'm here because I want a car with good MPG!"
Ironically many BMW's seem to return decent mileage. My sisters 330xi seems to get about 32-33 mpg on the highway. That's within 1-2 mpg of our V6 Accord which has less power and half the driven wheels.
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
When was the last time you've driven a BMW the way it was meant to be driven?
I must admit, it's been a long time for me as well. However, I've got my rear camber dialed in pretty close to zero. No uneven treadwear to speak of. My MPG is not bad, but again, if I wanted good MPG, I would have bought a Corolla or a Prius. My point was, nobody walks into a BMW dealership saying, "Hey, I'm here because I want a car with good MPG!"
Ironically many BMW's seem to return decent mileage. My sisters 330xi seems to get about 32-33 mpg on the highway. That's within 1-2 mpg of our V6 Accord which has less power and half the driven wheels.
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Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
When was the last time you've driven a BMW the way it was meant to be driven?
I must admit, it's been a long time for me as well. However, I've got my rear camber dialed in pretty close to zero. No uneven treadwear to speak of. My MPG is not bad, but again, if I wanted good MPG, I would have bought a Corolla or a Prius. My point was, nobody walks into a BMW dealership saying, "Hey, I'm here because I want a car with good MPG!"
Ironically many BMW's seem to return decent mileage. My sisters 330xi seems to get about 32-33 mpg on the highway. That's within 1-2 mpg of our V6 Accord which has less power and half the driven wheels.
My M5 gets 28 on the highway. Not bad for a 400HP V8 in a good sized sedan rolling on steam-rollers.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
Quattro, so your telling me that a quality car company has to trash tires and return horrible MPG to give a good driver experience? Maybe I am missing something here but with all the awesome computers and highly paid people that make BMW cars, it seems like they could get around those simple issues. If they can't do that maybe BMW shouldn't be on every ones short list of cool cars.
Again, maybe I'm missing something here.
When was the last time you've driven a BMW the way it was meant to be driven?
I must admit, it's been a long time for me as well. However, I've got my rear camber dialed in pretty close to zero. No uneven treadwear to speak of. My MPG is not bad, but again, if I wanted good MPG, I would have bought a Corolla or a Prius. My point was, nobody walks into a BMW dealership saying, "Hey, I'm here because I want a car with good MPG!"
Ironically many BMW's seem to return decent mileage. My sisters 330xi seems to get about 32-33 mpg on the highway. That's within 1-2 mpg of our V6 Accord which has less power and half the driven wheels.
My M5 gets 28 on the highway. Not bad for a 400HP V8 in a good sized sedan rolling on steam-rollers.
I don't think the negative camber is that detrimental for the tires. The rear wheels on my Z4 are like / \ even to the naked eye and yet the tire expense has not been bad. I do not rotate my tires so that I do not get [censored] performance simply to extend the tire life by a year or so.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
My M5 gets 28 on the highway. Not bad for a 400HP V8 in a good sized sedan rolling on steam-rollers.
My 530i gets about 28 mpg on the hwy as well. What am I doing wrong?
On the other hand, that's still better than my wife's C300 which gets about 24.
My M5 gets 28 on the highway. Not bad for a 400HP V8 in a good sized sedan rolling on steam-rollers.
My 530i gets about 28 mpg on the hwy as well. What am I doing wrong?
On the other hand, that's still better than my wife's C300 which gets about 24.
Almost all FWD cars use neg camber n the rear. And once again, almost always toe in.
they splay out when driving to zero.
On the fronts, a b it of toe out is often advised. They pull straight when under load.
Camber is not a huge tire wearing thing with radial tires. Toe in/out IS.
they splay out when driving to zero.
On the fronts, a b it of toe out is often advised. They pull straight when under load.
Camber is not a huge tire wearing thing with radial tires. Toe in/out IS.
Did alignments for years, Mechtech is right. Toe in is much more to blame for tire wear than camber to a point. Once you get past 1-1.5 degrees negative camber, the wear rate on the inside of the tires will increase. That goes for front and rear.
The C6 Corvettes with the Z51 pkg. were bad for this. Some negative camber, and soft compound Goodyear F1 tires made for a great autocross set up, but the inside of the front tires would be toast after 12-15,000 mi. As was posted above, you can get the alignment changed to zero out the camber. Give up a bit of cornering prowess in favor of tire life.
The C6 Corvettes with the Z51 pkg. were bad for this. Some negative camber, and soft compound Goodyear F1 tires made for a great autocross set up, but the inside of the front tires would be toast after 12-15,000 mi. As was posted above, you can get the alignment changed to zero out the camber. Give up a bit of cornering prowess in favor of tire life.
BMW is kind of unique though with having a double a-arm rear suspension(that can increase camber with wheel travel) and lots of static camber to start with. Usually static camber is used on mac struts that have little dynamic chamber change. I'm sure they have their reasons, it is an easy way to make the car understeer more, but alot of them now have mac struts on the front so they should help promote understeer already when driving hard?
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