BMW HP Synth oil vindication Part 2

[jpr]

With a salute to shortyb's thread - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/bmw-hp-synth-oil-vindication.86544/ - here's what it looks like under the valve cover of my 1999 323i with 92,554 miles. It's been on BMW 5w30 with OEM filters it's entire life and has been getting it's oil changed based on what the OLM dictated.

That has given it the following OCI's:
1/8/1999 - drove it off the lot w/ 7 miles on the odometer
1/12/2000 - Oil change - 16,363 miles and 369 days
4/12/2001 - Oil change - 14,241 miles and 456 days
8/28/2002 - Oil change - 15,366 miles and 503 days
3/29/2004 - Oil change - 14,101 miles and 579 days
10/20/2005 - Oil change - 14,248 miles and 570 days
11/26/2007 - Oil change - 13,941 miles and 767 days

I pulled the valve cover to assess the need for running an Auto-RX cycle and fully expected to find things a bit gunked up. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised by how clean things are. There's a little but of staining on the vanos housing and some minor sludge on the cover nooks and crannies, but the running gear was pristine.

BTW - UOA on the oil currently in the engine is here - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/bmw-5w30-4048-miles-1999-bmw-323i.91086/

 

[JAG]

Thanks. Nice pics. It's interesting how some areas are pristine and others are crudded up. Those BMW intervals are very long!

Does the engine have a traditional PCV valve? I've heard conflicting answers on that.

 

[jpr]

I'm not particularly familar with this, but the engine uses a CCV/oil separator instead of the traditional PCV -

Here's a good summation I found - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2158829
Quote:
On BMW's, the PCV "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" valve (usually named as such on other brands of cars) has a different name, but the device has a similar function. The official name for that part on many BMW's including your particular BMW (E39) is the "Pressure Regulating Valve" which is part of the system "CRANKCASE-VENTILATION/OIL SEPARATOR", found under ENGINE -> CYLINDER HEAD from the BMW dealership. Pelican also carries a duplicate part which can be requested by the same name. Note: that part carries that same name and position on BMW motors from the M52TU through the M54 generation and variants.

The part is somewhat larger than typical PCV valves but performs a similar function. It is made of black plastic and is found to the U.S. driver's side of the motor (LHD cars, i.e. your right-hand side while facing the motor from the front). It is attached by four vacuum hoses and two bolts.


There's another discussion and some pics here as well - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12142436

 

[JAG]

Awesome. Thank you very much! It sounds like it is a hybrid PCV-Catch Can.

BTW, yesterday I ordered a BMW 135i and will get it in late August! Making sure I don't let the motor oil take a sheit in the engine will be a big learning experience! As you likely know, this engine is a direct-injected (fuel-diluting), twin turbo engine with a propensity toward high oil temperatures. How BMW thinks this engine can do the same OCIs (reaching same level of oil degradation) as their other engines is beyond me.

Does your dealer sell the BMW HP oil? How much? My dealer said they put in Mobil 1 (0W-40 most likely) during oil change service. That's odd, I think.

 

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Awesome. Thank you very much! It sounds like it is a hybrid PCV-Catch Can.

BTW, yesterday I ordered a BMW 135i and will get it in late August! Making sure I don't let the motor oil take a sheit in the engine will be a big learning experience! As you likely know, this engine is a direct-injected (fuel-diluting), twin turbo engine with a propensity toward high oil temperatures. How BMW thinks this engine can do the same OCIs (reaching same level of oil degradation) as their other engines is beyond me.

That 135i sure sounds like fun! Undoubtedly you'll be doing a few used oil analysis early on until you establish a comfort level.

 

[JAG]

Yes the car is amazing. I've recently driven the new M3, M5, and M6 on the track at the BMW M School in Spartanburg, South Carolina. All 3 are great with my favorite of the 3 being the M3. When I test drove the 135i, it did not feel out of the league that the new M3 is in (M3 is faster, but still...). The 135i has a beautiful engine and exhaust note too. The exhaust note even burbles at idle.

The M School instructors who are also professional race car drivers love the 135i. They said there is no need for an M1 now. They raced the 135i against the M5 and the only place on the track where the M5 could pull away was on the long straight. At high speeds, the 500 HP in the M5 overcomes air drag better than the 300+ HP in the 135i, vehicle mass be dam_ned. Of course the Dinan computer chip added to the 135i could change that significantly.

Anyhow, yeah I will have to do some used oil analysis. I just can't find many used oil analysis on the engine shared by the 135i, 335i, and that 5 Series model. I have seen 1 or 2 and they weren't pretty.

You replied so quickly that you missed the question I added in an edit to my above post. Here it is: Does your dealer sell the BMW HP oil? How much? My dealer said they put in Mobil 1 (0W-40 most likely) during oil change service. That's odd, I think.

 

[jpr]

It does seem odd that a dealer would claim to use M1 rather than the BMW oil, but dealerships have been known to say some pretty odd things...

I've never bought the BMW oil other than as part of an oil change service. About the best deal on it I've seen is through Tischer BMW where you can get 7 qts plus a filter for $53 including shipping - http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/i...&catalogid=4462

The oil I have purchased for my car was the Total Quartz Energy 9000 0W-30. I paid $47.52 for 7 qts plus $4.20 for a Mahle filter. Shipping was also free, but this was part of a largish order I made so I do not know if that will always be the case. I purchased this from KO Performance, which has some great prices but rather flakey delivery -

 

[d00df00d]

Opinions notwithstanding, I get the impression that the Mobil 1 0w-40 is a significantly more sophisticated lube than the BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w30. It has quite an impressive list of approvals, and is manufacturer-specced for an equally impressive list of cars (Nissan GT-R, Porsche Carrera GT, etc.). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, given that Mobil 1 0w-40 has the right BMW approvals, and also given that almost all BMW engines can run 40-weights without a problem, I'm not surprised at all that a BMW dealership would use it.

Given the choice, I'd still run the BMW stuff in my engine. It's got a decent dose of moly and offers very good protection with relatively low viscosity. But I wouldn't feel bad with the Mobil 1.

 

[m6pwr]

jpr: How do you like the Total Quartz 9000 0w30 so far? It's one of the few synthetics I've found in the 0/5w30 class that is made from Group IV PAO base stock, according to its MSDS. I sent a sample off to Blackstone to get a VOA and will post the results when I get them.

 

[jpr]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr
jpr: How do you like the Total Quartz 9000 0w30 so far? It's one of the few synthetics I've found in the 0/5w30 class that is made from Group IV PAO base stock, according to its MSDS. I sent a sample off to Blackstone to get a VOA and will post the results when I get them.
With only about 5k on the current fill of BMW oil, I haven't used it yet. So I can only comment on how excellent the 2 bottles and 5 liter jug look sitting on my workbench. They are a very attractive grey color and have an appealling techno-euro look to them. Curiously enough, the spout on the 1 liter bottles is on the right but on the the 5 liter it is on the left when looking at the bottles front label.

Thanks for sending in the VOA sample. I was thinking of doing the same thing with the leftovers from when I do use it, but you have beaten me to it.

 

[jesbo]

I am duly impressed by those pics. Clearly the BMW HP oil has a very effective detergent package in it, and it holds up to the extended change intervals. Unusual to see an engine with that much mileage in such pristine condition. I've seen some pics of BMW engines on the e60 forums with less mileage where the sludge was so thick you couldn't tell the sludge from the parts.

Is your driving a typical mix of city and highway? Or perhaps more highway focused?

Thanks for posting this info.

JS

 

[Cutehumor]

7 oil changes in 9 years? the pics are awesome wow!

 

[jpr]

I'm a fairly moderate driver (most of the time) as I enjoy the car more for its handling than its drag racing potential. I typically run the car in the 2500 to 4000 rpm range where redline is at 6500.

In the early years with the car it had a few road trips, but for the last few years it has mainly just done commuting duty for me. It's about 16 mile one way trip, a a little more than half of which is on the freeway at about 75~80 mph.

I would have lost money on a bet regarding what I'd find under the valve cover. Of course I think most members here would have as well given the ~15k-ish OCI's at up to 25 months apart.

 

[jesbo]

Originally Posted By: jpr
I would have lost money on a bet regarding what I'd find under the valve cover. Of course I think most members here would have as well given the ~15k-ish OCI's at up to 25 months apart.


I'd have been digging into my pockets for sure. I had a '98 Volvo S70 with 100K miles which ran Mobil 1 its entire life with Oil Changes approx every 7-8K miles. Although I never pulled the valve cover off, I could clearly see inside with a flashlight, and aside from some light amber color, the parts were all clean as a whistle.

Based on my own experience, I was reluctant to believe the BMW HP oil could be better than Mobil 1, but after a lot of research, I now realize that the BMW HP is probably a true Group IV PAO based Synthetic and the Mobil 1 I was using most likely is not (I was not using the European Formula 0W-40 M1).

So much for my rambling. So bottom line, I'll be using the BMW HP oil or the German-Made Castrol after seeing your results. My driving style is very similar to yours.

 

[jpr]

Hmmm - I was under the impression that the BMW oil was a Group III. Regardless of type though, it seems to be working pretty darn well.

 

[Jim 5]

The BMW HP Synthetic oil is a popular oil to slag. The people doing it usually dredge up a picture that has been floating around the internet of a sludged e39 that probably never had an oil change. There is never scientific back up for their criticism.

I have been a defender of this oil for years here on bitog, and have based that on my own and others' hard data: namely, used oil analysis.

I no longer use it myself, because my used oil analysis and Terry Dyson tell me that my BMW engine and GC green are truly hitting the wear sweet-spot. I wouldn't hesitate to use the BMW stuff if I couldn't find GC. I myself don't do 14k miles on an OCI. I limit out at a year and usually no more than 6k (as my own use dictates).

Congrats to JAG on the 135. That TT inline 6 is an absolute beast, even without the vishnu chip. In a 135, it would be an absolute screamer. BMW was really ahead of the curve on that, by delivering an engine that is capable of v8 performance while delivering close to 4 cylinder fuel economy. By the way, I wouldn't go more than 7.5k miles on an OCI, and I'd really consider GC for its shear resistance. Also, as I understand, some 335's come with an oil cooler, some don't. If that is the same for your 135, I'd install one just to be safe.

I have been looking at a 550i, but with the fuel economy that the 3.0TT can deliver, while matching the performance of the 550, it seems a no brainer. Meanwhile, the fuel economy on the 535i is darn-near what the 530i was getting.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5
The BMW HP Synthetic oil is a popular oil to slag. The people doing it usually dredge up a picture that has been floating around the internet of a sludged e39 that probably never had an oil change. There is never scientific back up for their criticism.


While that may be true, you don't need used oil analysis to provide comments on lifter clatter, rod knock, and red gunk. My dad changed BMW 5W30 in his modestly driven 2002 540 twice as often as the indicator lights told him to and it sounded like a diesel at 80,000km. The switch to GC alone vastly reduced his issues and a course of ARX has put everything back where it was supposed to be. We did used oil analysis to see if something was wrong with his engine, air filter, injectors etc... and all it showed was high-ish lead after he had been running Techron which I understand isn't abnormal.

I'm glad the OP likes it, and it works for a lot of people, but I won't be using it. Not because of a sludgy internet picture either.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I have been looking at a 550i, but with the fuel economy that the 3.0TT can deliver, while matching the performance of the 550, it seems a no brainer. Meanwhile, the fuel economy on the 535i is darn-near what the 530i was getting.

Minor point: with equal transmissions, the 535i will match the 550i's performance up to moderate highway speeds, but the 550i will pull away after that. Eventually, power always wins.

You're right about the fuel economy, though.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
I have been looking at a 550i, but with the fuel economy that the 3.0TT can deliver, while matching the performance of the 550, it seems a no brainer. Meanwhile, the fuel economy on the 535i is darn-near what the 530i was getting.

Minor point: with equal transmissions, the 535i will match the 550i's performance up to moderate highway speeds, but the 550i will pull away after that. Eventually, power always wins.

You're right about the fuel economy, though.


I totally agree. However, these days, with a wife and daughter, I don't find it useful as much any more to have that extra pull above 80 MPH. Now if you chipped the 3.0TT, you are going to get that extra 100 whp and now I think you've exceeded the 550i.

Not to mention the gas.

My view is that the only things the 550i has going for it is that it is the top of the line, it has the v8 torque and more (stock) HP. The best thing of all for me is that it has the intoxicating v8 rumble, which in my books is the key reason still to consider it!

I'll actually wander out of my garage when I see my neighbor pulling out of his so that I can listen to him pull up the hill in his 4.8L v8 powered BMW X5. It just sounds awesome. Nothing compares.

 

[jesbo]

Not to muddy the discussion, but isn't BMW HP Synthetic equivalent to German Castrol (GC) Synthetic Oil? The only reason I ask is that BMW plasters a label in the engine compartment saying Use High Performance Synthetic Oil only, and the Oil filler cap has "BMW Recommends Castrol" molded into it.

I replaced the oil in my '08 535i after 1500 break-in miles with Castrol Synthetic (Bottle said Made in Germany on the back) so I assumed it was equivalent to the BMW branded oil.

BTW, I love the BMW N54 TT Engine and will treat it kindly with only the best oils and changes at half the BMW recommended intervals. It is amazing how much power and torque it puts out when you want it to, but gives better milage than my previous Volvo 5-banger Turbo that had 40 HP less.