Unless you plan on using a different oil in the winter than in the summer stick with a 0w40 or 5w40 as Xw-20 or Xw/30 oils are not recommended for ambient temps above 0'c and 10'c respectively. I think you are using the best oil for your engine/climate conditions chap, stick with the Mobil 1 0w-40.
BMW e36 cold weather severe service oil?
- Thread starter Lead Shoes
- Start date
- Status
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Unless you plan on using a different oil in the winter than in the summer stick with a 0w40 or 5w40 as Xw-20 or Xw/30 oils are not recommended for ambient temps above 0'c and 10'c respectively. I think you are using the best oil for your engine/climate conditions chap, stick with the Mobil 1 0w-40.
Since when xW30 is not recommended for temperatures higher then 10c?
Unless you plan on using a different oil in the winter than in the summer stick with a 0w40 or 5w40 as Xw-20 or Xw/30 oils are not recommended for ambient temps above 0'c and 10'c respectively. I think you are using the best oil for your engine/climate conditions chap, stick with the Mobil 1 0w-40.
Since when xW30 is not recommended for temperatures higher then 10c?
I think he means the ILSAC type 30 grades, not a 30 that is an approved lube (or close to it, like an HDEO).
The viscosity recommendations for his engine are based on ambient temperatures
as I mentioned on a previous post...my technical data software (the up to the minute info that comes/goes direct from BMW to them) it gives the correct viscosities for a given climate
5w30 oils for his engine are only recommended for ambient temps up to 10'C
as I mentioned on a previous post...my technical data software (the up to the minute info that comes/goes direct from BMW to them) it gives the correct viscosities for a given climate
5w30 oils for his engine are only recommended for ambient temps up to 10'C
Last edited:
But think of the 5w30 oils in the day. I have a hard time believing that a BMW LL type oil or something like Delvac 1 LE 5w30 could only be used in 10 C or colder, given that both have an HTHS of 3.5 or greater. The same logic could be used to prohibit use of GC in the vehicle, right?
A 5w30 "back in the day" is the same viscosity as a 5w30 tomorrow. Viscosity recommendations are based on many calculations done by the engineers who designed the engine. Oil thickens when it's gets cold and thins when it gets hot so the climate has a big effect on the temperature and thus the viscosity of the oil in the sump. The correct viscosity is determined by a load of different factors, bearing clearances/ oil pressure/ oil flow and so on. If you wanted to use a 5w30 in 30'C ambient temps despite being warned by BMW that it's not correct for temps above 10'C, you would need an oil pressure gauge to see if you were making the right choice. The pressure should be at 4bar according to my system, presumably running at full operating temp.
Last edited:
Or BMW genuine synthetic oil? Doesn't BMW say you can use that in anything except those models that require stuff like the 10W-60?
Originally Posted By: Garak
But think of the 5w30 oils in the day. I have a hard time believing that a BMW LL type oil or something like Delvac 1 LE 5w30 could only be used in 10 C or colder, given that both have an HTHS of 3.5 or greater. The same logic could be used to prohibit use of GC in the vehicle, right?
Originally Posted By: Garak
But think of the 5w30 oils in the day. I have a hard time believing that a BMW LL type oil or something like Delvac 1 LE 5w30 could only be used in 10 C or colder, given that both have an HTHS of 3.5 or greater. The same logic could be used to prohibit use of GC in the vehicle, right?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Or BMW genuine synthetic oil? Doesn't BMW say you can use that in anything except those models that require stuff like the 10W-60?
Originally Posted By: Garak
But think of the 5w30 oils in the day. I have a hard time believing that a BMW LL type oil or something like Delvac 1 LE 5w30 could only be used in 10 C or colder, given that both have an HTHS of 3.5 or greater. The same logic could be used to prohibit use of GC in the vehicle, right?
Yes, that's what I was getting at earlier, the BMW 5w30 is recommended for basically anything on this side of the pond that doesn't call for 10w-60. This came around when they came out with LL-98 IIRC.
Now of course BMW's 5w30 has an HTHS >=3.5cP, so it isn't like your typical PCMO 5w30, and is specifically designed for extended drain intervals.
Or BMW genuine synthetic oil? Doesn't BMW say you can use that in anything except those models that require stuff like the 10W-60?
Originally Posted By: Garak
But think of the 5w30 oils in the day. I have a hard time believing that a BMW LL type oil or something like Delvac 1 LE 5w30 could only be used in 10 C or colder, given that both have an HTHS of 3.5 or greater. The same logic could be used to prohibit use of GC in the vehicle, right?
Yes, that's what I was getting at earlier, the BMW 5w30 is recommended for basically anything on this side of the pond that doesn't call for 10w-60. This came around when they came out with LL-98 IIRC.
Now of course BMW's 5w30 has an HTHS >=3.5cP, so it isn't like your typical PCMO 5w30, and is specifically designed for extended drain intervals.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: riggaz
A 5w30 "back in the day" is the same viscosity as a 5w30 tomorrow.
A 5w30 isn't a 5w30 isn't a 5w30
An "Energy Conserving" 5w30 with an HTHS around 3.0cP is quite a bit different from a European style 5w30 like BMW's 5w30, which has an HTHS >= 3.5cP.
And in that vein, not all 5w30's will thin and thicken the same with temperature. A higher VI 5w30 will have less change in viscosity between 40C and operating temperature than a low VI 5w30, and a synthetic 5w30 will tend to thicken less in lower temperatures.
It is quite possible to have two 5w30 oils with very different cold performance.
Put another way: An oil like BMW 5w30 is closer in viscosity to Mobil 1 0w-40 than it is to your typical SN GF-5 5w30.
A 5w30 "back in the day" is the same viscosity as a 5w30 tomorrow.
A 5w30 isn't a 5w30 isn't a 5w30
An "Energy Conserving" 5w30 with an HTHS around 3.0cP is quite a bit different from a European style 5w30 like BMW's 5w30, which has an HTHS >= 3.5cP.
And in that vein, not all 5w30's will thin and thicken the same with temperature. A higher VI 5w30 will have less change in viscosity between 40C and operating temperature than a low VI 5w30, and a synthetic 5w30 will tend to thicken less in lower temperatures.
It is quite possible to have two 5w30 oils with very different cold performance.
Put another way: An oil like BMW 5w30 is closer in viscosity to Mobil 1 0w-40 than it is to your typical SN GF-5 5w30.
Originally Posted By: riggaz
A 5w30 "back in the day" is the same viscosity as a 5w30 tomorrow.
Hogwash. Overkill already covered in. This is the whole problem - reading too much into the Xw-XX on the bottle. The reverse didn't work well when VW/Audi Canada dealers were using ILSAC 0w30 interchangeably with GC 0w-30. Further to that, back when the specifications were written for this vehicle, 5w30 examples with very high HTHS (i.e. 3.5 and greater) were very difficult to obtain. Also, to extend on Overkill's point, it's possible to have two 5w30 grades with very different high temperature behaviours. There's a reason why BMW, the ACEA, et al came out with specifications based upon HTHS, rather than SAE viscosity.
If you think that 5w30 is 5w30, go buy two diesels. Try Delvac 1 LE 5w30 CJ-4 in one, and Mobil Super 5w30 SN/GF-5 in the other. Let me know how it goes.
Heck in the BMW in question, I'd use that Delvac 1 before I'd use any 10w-40 on the market.
A 5w30 "back in the day" is the same viscosity as a 5w30 tomorrow.
Hogwash. Overkill already covered in. This is the whole problem - reading too much into the Xw-XX on the bottle. The reverse didn't work well when VW/Audi Canada dealers were using ILSAC 0w30 interchangeably with GC 0w-30. Further to that, back when the specifications were written for this vehicle, 5w30 examples with very high HTHS (i.e. 3.5 and greater) were very difficult to obtain. Also, to extend on Overkill's point, it's possible to have two 5w30 grades with very different high temperature behaviours. There's a reason why BMW, the ACEA, et al came out with specifications based upon HTHS, rather than SAE viscosity.
If you think that 5w30 is 5w30, go buy two diesels. Try Delvac 1 LE 5w30 CJ-4 in one, and Mobil Super 5w30 SN/GF-5 in the other. Let me know how it goes.
Heck in the BMW in question, I'd use that Delvac 1 before I'd use any 10w-40 on the market.
Find the thread here in the PCMO section about how HTHS trumps KV. No, there wasn't a different KV requirement for 5w30s in 1993 than there is now. But, as I already stated, there were very, very few 5w30 examples with an HTHS of 3.5 or greater.
The vehicles in question had a temperature chart, as has already been posted. The subsequent spec - which is backwards compatible - called for approvals based upon, among other things, having an HTHS of 3.5 or greater.
Look at the Autodata info you posted. It's self-contradictory and certain things are dated. Look at the temperature range for 10w-40. In that case, the definition for a 10w-40 has changed over the years. A 10w-40 is currently not allowed to be as thin as it was then. Also, find an ACEA A3 5w-20 for me.
You're not going to find anyone at BMW who would find something like GC 0w30 or a BMW A3/B3 A3/B4 type 5w30 a problem - they'd state it's acceptable in all temperature ranges, all year in this vehicle. The approved lubricant lists came out in the first place thanks to weaknesses in SAE J300.
The vehicles in question had a temperature chart, as has already been posted. The subsequent spec - which is backwards compatible - called for approvals based upon, among other things, having an HTHS of 3.5 or greater.
Look at the Autodata info you posted. It's self-contradictory and certain things are dated. Look at the temperature range for 10w-40. In that case, the definition for a 10w-40 has changed over the years. A 10w-40 is currently not allowed to be as thin as it was then. Also, find an ACEA A3 5w-20 for me.
You're not going to find anyone at BMW who would find something like GC 0w30 or a BMW A3/B3 A3/B4 type 5w30 a problem - they'd state it's acceptable in all temperature ranges, all year in this vehicle. The approved lubricant lists came out in the first place thanks to weaknesses in SAE J300.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
