BMW 230i (B46) oil

see? its a decent company now.ok,marketing is stupid still ,but everything else is on par with castrol,total and other repectable blenders now..so why all the hating? you should let the ghost of the past behind you.:)
Nah, I never said they are not decent. They are approved for all these approvals. But, when I discuss LM, I discuss among those oils that are approved.
Among those oils, they are just average. They are Castrol Edge 5W30 or 5W40, not 0W30 or 0W40.
There are numerous oils like LM. I mean I used in Europe, StatOIl, OMV, I use Repsol in my fleet of vehicles that I have in business, I co-own there. Cheap oil, MB 229.51 approved. Buying in bulk. If someone offered me a better price for LM, I would move to LM for those vehicles.
In my personal vehicles? If I wanted oil like that, I could get Catsrol Edge 5W40 in Wal mart.
 
Interesting. May I know the source of the information? Usually all oil blenders can buy everything available on the market including base oils, but keep final recipes in secret.

Anyway, if it's HC base oil then it is good quality, NOACK might be higher, but everything else is good, like flash and pour.
The additive supplier determines the "recipe".
 
see? its a decent company now.ok,marketing is stupid still ,but everything else is on par with castrol,total and other repectable blenders now..so why all the hating? you should let the ghost of the past behind you.:)
The issue with LM in the United States is the import price. It's as much or sometimes more expensive than the premier products from Mobil 1, Pennzoil (aka Shell), Castrol.

For example I just had my oil changed using LiquiMoly but I had a coupon so it was $90 vs the normal $150 which I hate paying.
 
GTL base oils are better quality API Group III base oils.
Gr III or V? Nah, I am just saying, we were questioning what should be. It really falls into GrV with performance.
this is taken from shell's page . so its griii with some kind of grv perfomance.
As for why BMW has higher oxidative requirements? Not sure. That is their thing and internal decisions. They went completely crazy in 2018, retracted in 2022.
Esters are, but there is also a lot of oxidation.
how do we know that esp 0-30 has esters and not PAO.? i know we had that conv. way back in a topic but i dont remember.
is there an info from an XOM chemist ?
is it bcs of a high limit of oxidation in a VOA ?
pour point is -51,isnt that PAO ?
 
Liqui Moly is most commonly used oil in Europe and made in Germany. If it has approval for your car then it very good oil to use. I would not use oil without LL approvals

I have the same car same year and using now LM top tec 6200 with LL04 approval. It has about 3% of esters and a lot lots of fans and users. Also good results even for all recommended long OCIs like 10K miles and above.

Is it overpriced- yes. But I am using FCP euro replacement so it costs me just shipping

So I don’t think it’s worth the full price, so cheaper alternatives like Castro with LL04 or M1 ESP should work well
Awesome, but the 4200 is a 5w30 oil and would prefer a 0w oil because i live in Montreal… I did notice it has the specification for the b48 though…
Currently I’m on LM 6600 0w20 and have about 8600 km’s on the oil. Should i go the distance to 15k km’s or change it at 10k km’s?
I may have to give the 4200 a try…
 
Awesome, but the 4200 is a 5w30 oil and would prefer a 0w oil because i live in Montreal… I did notice it has the specification for the b48 though…
Currently I’m on LM 6600 0w20 and have about 8600 km’s on the oil. Should i go the distance to 15k km’s or change it at 10k km’s?
I may have to give the 4200 a try…
I would prefer BMW TPT LL01FE 0W-30, Motul Specific LL01FE 0W-30, or M1 0W-40 to the 6600 if you insist on 0W.
 
Awesome, but the 4200 is a 5w30 oil and would prefer a 0w oil because i live in Montreal… I did notice it has the specification for the b48 though…
Currently I’m on LM 6600 0w20 and have about 8600 km’s on the oil. Should i go the distance to 15k km’s or change it at 10k km’s?
I may have to give the 4200 a try…
You under warranty ? If not, Motomaster 0W30 Euro LX, or Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0W30 (same oils).
 
No warranty…yes i read that the penzoil is great but why does it not have the BMW certification.
A bit higher oxidation for BMW liking. ESP 0W30 and LX are in the same boat. If you are doing 10k km, no issues there.
If that is your thing, Motomaster/Pennzoil 5W30 Euro is really good. GTL base stock. It will work well in Canadian winters.
 
i'll take your word for it since i am bored to translate this with google .
it seems that it has something from everything.
PAO is the amount safe for bmw troubled seals and gaskets?
maybe i will give it a try in fall-winter for my next OCI.
finally an exceptional oil from mobil 0x- that we can find it here nearby
fs 0-40 still we cant..but this is better from what i read in a topic,porsche uses it as an oem,this is something to consider.
or what is in Europe Shell Helix 0W30 ECT.
so, this shell is with many esters too? like mobil x3?
 
i'll take your word for it since i am bored to translate this with google .
it seems that it has something from everything.
PAO is the amount safe for bmw troubled seals and gaskets?
maybe i will give it a try in fall-winter for my next OCI.
finally an exceptional oil from mobil 0x- that we can find it here nearby
fs 0-40 still we cant..but this is better from what i read in a topic,porsche uses it as an oem,this is something to consider.

so, this shell is with many esters too? like mobil x3?
ECT? No. But for some reason doesn’t have LL04. My thinking is base oxidation or Shell didn’t bother to reapprove oil after BMW went back to OW in 2022.
 
Awesome, but the 4200 is a 5w30 oil and would prefer a 0w oil because i live in Montreal… I did notice it has the specification for the b48 though…
Currently I’m on LM 6600 0w20 and have about 8600 km’s on the oil. Should i go the distance to 15k km’s or change it at 10k km’s?
I may have to give the 4200 a try…
I wouldn’t use LM oil due to its higher price compared to similar oils from other brands. Unless you’re getting it at a steep discount, it doesn’t really make sense. Its pour point is -41°C, which is quite low, and should be sufficient depending on where in Canada you live. If you’re in a colder region, consider switching to a 0W-grade oil.

I also wouldn’t recommend using an unapproved oil that lacks the proper LL specification. BMW approval means the oil has been tested and approved for specific applications.

Your choice should also depend on your driving habits. I wouldn’t opt for oils with viscosity on the lower oil end if your usage includes frequent short trips. In my case, the B48 engine dilutes oil significantly due to lots of short drives. I’ve used BMW 0W-30 LL01FE for years—it has a starting viscosity of 9.9, but it thins out like water by 5,000 miles and drains like water, even BMW 0w20 feels like more robust.

Motul 4200, with a viscosity of 12.2, offers a bit more cushion if thinning occurs over time.

As for full SAPS oils like M1 0W-40 with LL01 approval, I’d avoid those for direct-injection turbo engines. European recommendations generally point to LL04 oils, which are mid- to low-SAPS and have an HTHS rating of 3.5 or higher.

If I lived in your climate, I’d consider LM Top Tec 4210 SAE 0W-30 (pour point -54°F) or Special Tec B FE SAE 0W-30 (pour point -49°F), or something from Motul.
 
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I wouldn’t use LM oil due to its higher price compared to similar oils from other brands. Unless you’re getting it at a steep discount, it doesn’t really make sense. Its pour point is -41°C, which is quite low, and should be sufficient depending on where in Canada you live. If you’re in a colder region, consider switching to a 0W-grade oil.
Unless Yukon, or Fairbanks, Alaska, pour point is not as good an indicator. That is why there is CCS testing that determines cold performance. 5W is good in theory, as low as -30 (I used it as low as -42 °C), and 0W is as low as -35. That is where CCS is measured. That does not mean oil cannot perform well below that. There are 0W oils that have a higher pour point than 5W oils, yet they performed better when it comes to cold cranking than the 5W oils. For example, Mobil1 0W40 is -42c, while Shell Helix 5W40 Pure Plus is -54c. However, 0W indicates better cold cranking pumpability.
As for full SAPS oils like M1 0W-40 with LL01 approval, I’d avoid those for direct-injection turbo engines. European recommendations generally point to LL04 oils, which are mid- to low-SAPS and have an HTHS rating of 3.5 or higher.
M1 0W40 API SN (previous version) had sulfated ash at 1.32%. It was high and in engines prone to IVD will dump more deposits. However, B46/48 is not prone to IVD. Current Mobil1 API SP has sulfated ash at levels as any other oil of that category.
Europeans use LL04 since 2009. The reason for that is that in EU gas in 2009 became ultra-low sulphur. That only happened in North America, and not at once, in January 2017. In the North America requirement is still "average" 10ppm. Meaning, you could still stumble on higher sulphur levels that could shorten longevity of oil. From logistical standpoint, does not make sense, but not sure how things are in Canada with gas. LL01 will be able to do longer OCI as the additive package is richer. If gas is an issue, LL01 is always a better option! BMW, since the N54 IVD issues, really does not have those problems, regardless of whether the oil is Low-SAPS or Full SAPS. If gas is good, LL04 will do it.
If I lived in your climate, I’d consider LM Top Tec 4210 SAE 0W-30 (pour point -54°F) or Special Tec B FE SAE 0W-30 (pour point -49°F), or something from Motul.
Again, pour point is not an indicator of cold cranking performance. Pour point does tell us about base stock compositions, mostly, higher PAO levels means lower pour point. Howeever, since API SP we see Group III oils utilizing pretty good base stocks with pour points as low as -45.
 
Unless Yukon, or Fairbanks, Alaska, pour point is not as good an indicator. That is why there is CCS testing that determines cold performance. 5W is good in theory, as low as -30 (I used it as low as -42 °C), and 0W is as low as -35. That is where CCS is measured. That does not mean oil cannot perform well below that. There are 0W oils that have a higher pour point than 5W oils, yet they performed better when it comes to cold cranking than the 5W oils. For example, Mobil1 0W40 is -42c, while Shell Helix 5W40 Pure Plus is -54c. However, 0W indicates better cold cranking pumpability.

M1 0W40 API SN (previous version) had sulfated ash at 1.32%. It was high and in engines prone to IVD will dump more deposits. However, B46/48 is not prone to IVD. Current Mobil1 API SP has sulfated ash at levels as any other oil of that category.
Europeans use LL04 since 2009. The reason for that is that in EU gas in 2009 became ultra-low sulphur. That only happened in North America, and not at once, in January 2017. In the North America requirement is still "average" 10ppm. Meaning, you could still stumble on higher sulphur levels that could shorten longevity of oil. From logistical standpoint, does not make sense, but not sure how things are in Canada with gas. LL01 will be able to do longer OCI as the additive package is richer. If gas is an issue, LL01 is always a better option! BMW, since the N54 IVD issues, really does not have those problems, regardless of whether the oil is Low-SAPS or Full SAPS. If gas is good, LL04 will do it.

Again, pour point is not an indicator of cold cranking performance. Pour point does tell us about base stock compositions, mostly, higher PAO levels means lower pour point. Howeever, since API SP we see Group III oils utilizing pretty good base stocks with pour points as low as -45.
Both CCS and Pour points are indirectly correlated, both measured differently but both dependent on the temperature

both tests assess low-temperature properties, but yeah,the CCS test is considered a more relevant indicator of an oil's performance during cold engine start-up than the pour point.
 
Both CCS and Pour points are indirectly correlated, both measured differently but both dependent on the temperature

both tests assess low-temperature properties, but yeah,the CCS test is considered a more relevant indicator of an oil's performance during cold engine start-up than the pour point.
As I mentioned, you have Shell Helix 5W40 with -57c/-71f pour point (I said previously -54c, I was wrong) and still be 5W. And Mobil1 0W40 and pour point of -42c: https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/46866-shell-helix-ultra-5w-40-api-sp-svezhee/
Or, HPL Euro 5W40 has pour point of also -57/-71, but it is still 5W40.

Those are big differences.
Post #5 in this thread explains it well:
 
Both CCS and Pour points are indirectly correlated, both measured differently but both dependent on the temperature

both tests assess low-temperature properties, but yeah,the CCS test is considered a more relevant indicator of an oil's performance during cold engine start-up than the pour point.
They are not that correlated. Castrol TWS 10W-60 in some versions had a super low pour point, almost -50 C, but it is a 10W for a reason. Pour point mainly reflects crystal formation I think. Oils with very high PAO content will almost always have a super low pour point regardless of viscosity.
 
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