BMW 230i (B46) oil

[Eugenius]

In Canada we have two Castrol euro 0w30 oils. Which do I pick for my ‘18 BMW 330i?
CastrolEdge Euro a3/b4 0w30 or Castroledge Euro LL 0w30?
Currently I’m running Liqui Moly top tec 6600 0w20 and wanting to go to a 0w30 oil but can’t justify it’s price. Is LM worth the extra $$?

Liqui Moly is most commonly used oil in Europe and made in Germany. If it has approval for your car then it very good oil to use. I would not use oil without LL approvals

I have the same car same year and using now LM top tec 6200 with LL04 approval. It has about 3% of esters and a lot lots of fans and users. Also good results even for all recommended long OCIs like 10K miles and above.

Is it overpriced- yes. But I am using FCP euro replacement so it costs me just shipping

So I don’t think it’s worth the full price, so cheaper alternatives like Castro with LL04 or M1 ESP should work well

 

[edyvw]

Liqui Moly is most commonly used oil in Europe and made in Germany. If it has approval for your car then it very good oil to use. I would not use oil without LL approvals

I have the same car same year and using now LM top tec 6200 with LL04 approval. It has about 3% of esters and a lot lots of fans and users. Also good results even for all recommended long OCIs like 10K miles and above.

Is it overpriced- yes. But I am using FCP euro replacement so it costs me just shipping

So I don’t think it’s worth the full price, so cheaper alternatives like Castro with LL04 or M1 ESP should work well

Top Tec 6200 is 0W20 oil, and it cannot be LL04. It actually does not have any BMW approvals. My guess is you are using Top Tec 4200? It is not PAO based or ester based. It is up to 85% heavy paraffinic oil. It is right on border of 10% Noack. Compared to ESP 0W30, unremarkable oil in every aspect!

Liqui Moly is not the most commonly used oil in Europe. Shell, Castrol, Total, Mobil1 etc. We have been through this topic so many times. Yes it does have a lot of fans, bcs. they think Made in Germany gets them 50hp and 100lb-ft of torque.
It is popular in Eastern Europe for example, not because it is better than others (it is not) but because no one is selling counterfeit packaging. Usually, people there counterfeit Mobil1, Shell, Castrol. In Germany is popular, will bcs. it is German oil, and bcs. Liqui Moly mostly spends money on marketing, and they re very good at it.

 

[Eugenius]

Sorry yes it was typo - 4200

It is not PAO or the ester based (which these days are?) but it has some ester added as said. Noack is 9.5 based on tech documentation

List of all needed approvals
ACEA C3 • API SP • BMW Longlife-04 • MB-Approval229.31 • MB-Approval 229.51 • MB-Approval 229.52 •Opel OV 040 1547 - G30 / OV 040 1547 - D30 • PorscheC30 • VW 504 00 • VW 507 00

And good
Flash point 446 °F
Pour point -43 °F
HTHS > 3.5
Anything you need

Not understanding why are you so criticizing it?

 

[edyvw]

Sorry yes it was typo - 4200

It is not PAO or the ester based (which these days are?) but it has some ester added as said. Noack is 9.5 based on tech documentation

List of all needed approvals
ACEA C3 • API SP • BMW Longlife-04 • MB-Approval229.31 • MB-Approval 229.51 • MB-Approval 229.52 •Opel OV 040 1547 - G30 / OV 040 1547 - D30 • PorscheC30 • VW 504 00 • VW 507 00

And good
Flash point 446 °F
Pour point -43 °F
HTHS > 3.5
Anything you need

Not understanding why are you so criticizing it?

I am not criticizing it. One can just get much better stuff cheaper or at a similar price. It is average oil in every aspect.
There is no such thing as 100% PAO etc. But this oil, based on pour point, does not contain any. Not sure where you got esters, but the acidity of this oil does not indicate any. The pour point in VOA is -38 °C. This is strictly Group III oil. It has BMW LL04, so oxidation has to be much lower than what ester oils usually deliver.
If you want Ester's, go to Walmart and get ESP 0W30. If you want PAO, get Motul X-Clean+ 0W30 EFE on FCP.
That being said, it is a safe choice. Nothing special. Mobil1 ESP 5W30 if you want LL04 or above-mentioned Motul, Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 Euro L, would be my choices over this.

 

[Eugenius]

I am not criticizing it. One can just get much better stuff cheaper or at a similar price. It is average oil in every aspect.
There is no such thing as 100% PAO etc. But this oil, based on pour point, does not contain any. Not sure where you got esters, but the acidity of this oil does not indicate any. The pour point in VOA is -38 °C. This is strictly Group III oil. It has BMW LL04, so oxidation has to be much lower than what ester oils usually deliver.
If you want Ester's, go to Walmart and get ESP 0W30. If you want PAO, get Motul X-Clean+ 0W30 EFE on FCP.
That being said, it is a safe choice. Nothing special. Mobil1 ESP 5W30 if you want LL04 or above-mentioned Motul, Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 Euro L, would be my choices over this.

I dont see a clear win of X-Clean+ or ESP over LM

X-Clean+ slightly lower flash, higher pour, lower TBN, also made by french (kidding)
ESP 0w30 - no LL
ESP 5w30 no PAO as well


LM 4200 has a clear 3-5% ester spike at 1700


For me it costs just $10 of shipping to return to FCP and get for free one.

And I totally agree it would be overpriced buying it at the full price

 

[edyvw]

X-Clean+ slightly lower flash, higher pour, lower TBN, also made by french (kidding)

X-Clean+ 0W30 EFE has a pour point of -50, so I'm not sure where you got a higher pour point. It is 25% PAO based. Pour Point is similar to ESP. Lower TBN is the point of these oils.
ESP 0W30 on oil.ru came at -57c, Mobil1 indicates -52./ The reason why LM has bit os ester (and can get LL04) is bcs. it is mostly GrIII. While in 4200 GrIII is 85% of base stock, in ESP it has very little, bcs. The base stock consists mostly of PAO, GTL, and Esters. GrIII is there just for solubility reasons.
The reason why it does not have LL04 is higher ester content, and with that, initial oxidation. Compare the spike at ESP to LM:

The thing is not whether oil has 1 or 5% esters, but the overall package. If oil has any meaningful ester content, it won't have LL01 or LL04 bcs. BMW oxidation limits are more stringent than others. That is why LM is LL04. That matters only if you are under warranty or if you are doing 15k OCI (maybe).

ESP 5w30 no PAO as well

ESP is mostly GTL oil. Remember again, LM is 85% Group III. That is a bigger story than 3% ester base (maybe). Pennzoil %W30 Euro L is GTL too, and HTHS of 3.68cP.

As for price, that is a different story. It is decent oil. Definitely not top tier among Euro.

 

[Eugenius]

I guess I was comparing with MOTUL 8100 X-CLEAN+ 5W-30 as compatible 4200, not EFE

LM also has similar oil PAO based if compare with EFE, Top Tec 4210 SAE 0W-30, Special Tec B FE SAE 0W-30 30-60% PAO based

Yes I aware LM 4200 is mostly group 3, although still long life can serve long recommended OCIs which proved by multiples analyses with no or little viscosity degradations.

Also I would not use non-approved oil, no matter how good it is.

This graph might be outdated for ESPs, I saw that formulation changed after 2023

Not sure if LV is the same as just ESP 0w30, but this spectroscopy shows no PAO except X1

 

[edyvw]

I guess I was comparing with MOTUL 8100 X-CLEAN+ 5W-30 as compatible 4200, not EFE

LM also has similar oil PAO based if compare with EFE, Top Tec 4210 SAE 0W-30, Special Tec B FE SAE 0W-30 30-60% PAO based

Yes I aware LM 4200 is mostly group 3, although still long life can serve long recommended OCIs which proved by multiples analyses with no or little viscosity degradations.

Also I would not use non-approved oil, no matter how good it is.

This graph might be outdated for ESPs, I saw that formulation changed after 2023

Not sure if LV is the same as just ESP 0w30, but this spectroscopy shows no PAO except X1

View attachment 285374

Formulation was changed on ESP 5W30, which is heavy GTL, far better than anything Group III. ESP 0W30 stayed the same formulation as before.
Take into consideration that Russia sometimes has different blends bcs. very cold environments in some areas.
X-Clean+ 5W30 was reformulated some time ago.

 

[svenson]

The reason why it does not have LL04 is higher ester content, and with that, initial oxidation. Compare the spike at ESP to LM:


The thing is not whether oil has 1 or 5% esters, but the overall package. If oil has any meaningful ester content, it won't have LL01 or LL04 bcs. BMW oxidation limits are more stringent than others. That is why LM is LL04. That matters only if you are under warranty or if you are doing 15k OCI (maybe).

we know that esters are high initially. since ,i guess bmw knows that then why they dont approve such an oil with initial high oxidation? dont esters after some miles drop that initially high indication? i thought that was the case.

if the case here with bmw is that due to oxidation =shorter oci ...why?can most of groupiii oils ,5-30 ,without that ester content ,achieve a such a long oci of 15k or 25k that bmw has set in europe? i mean its very hypocritical from bmw..it has mb229.52,504vw most stringent ones and porsche,i mean are they stupid? approving this oil for them means its not for a long oci? why bmw does this to itself?

ESP is mostly GTL oil. Remember again, LM is 85% Group III. That is a bigger story than 3% ester base (maybe). Pennzoil %W30 Euro L is GTL too, and HTHS of 3.68cP.

GTL base oils are better quality API Group III base oils.
motul uses good quality Group III oils,as you have mentioned .fuchs too.
just bcs. ,according to your knowledge,LM doesn't, that doesn't mean that all good quality Group III oils are inferior to GTL.

 

[svenson]

X-Clean+ 5W30 was reformulated some time ago.

i hope you look it up to your readings ,when you have some spare time and remember it,to find that year.

 

[edyvw]

we know that esters are high initially. since ,i guess bmw knows that then why they dont approve such an oil with initial high oxidation? dont esters after some miles drop that initially high indication? i thought that was the case.

if the case here with bmw is that due to oxidation =shorter oci ...why?can most of groupiii oils ,5-30 ,without that ester content ,achieve a such a long oci of 15k or 25k that bmw has set in europe? i mean its very hypocritical from bmw..it has mb229.52,504vw most stringent ones and porsche,i mean are they stupid? approving this oil for them means its not for a long oci? why bmw does this to itself?


GTL base oils are better quality API Group III base oils.
motul uses good quality Group III oils,as you have mentioned .fuchs too.
just bcs. ,according to your knowledge,LM doesn't, that doesn't mean that all good quality Group III oils are inferior to GTL.

BMW also wants certain amount of Group III. The whole package has to be “friendly “ with gaskets etc. They set oxidation limits the way they do. At one point they completely eliminated 0WXX oils in LL01 and LL04 (2018 update). Than they reverse that to certain extent in 2022 update, but not enough for ESP 0W30.
GTL is far superior to Group III in cold performance and HTHS. We had discussion about it, is it GrIII or GrV?

 

[edyvw]

i hope you look it up to your readings ,when you have some spare time and remember it,to find that year.

Yeah, I forgot. I need to get that.

 

[Eugenius]

i hope you look it up to your readings ,when you have some spare time and remember it,to find that year.

This is exactly why I’m hesitant to use PAO-based oils in my cars. I used PAO-based oils for years in my V6 Cyclone and VQ37—specifically M1 0W-20 EP and M1 0W-40 Euro—and both engines developed leaks before reaching 100K miles. As soon as I switched back to GTL/Group III oils with some ester content, the leaks were reduced and eventually disappeared.

I know there are additives designed to counteract the seal-shrinking effects of PAOs, but this has just been my personal experience. I’m not very confident in using oils with a high PAO content in older engines and prefer to be cautious.

Liqui Moly 4200 fits the bill nicely, and with a very low pour point of -43°F, it likely contains a portion of GTL mixed with Group III base oils. But of course, only the manufacturer truly knows the blend.

 

[edyvw]

This is exactly why I’m hesitant to use PAO-based oils in my cars. I used PAO-based oils for years in my V6 Cyclone and VQ37—specifically M1 0W-20 EP and M1 0W-40 Euro—and both engines developed leaks before reaching 100K miles. As soon as I switched back to GTL/Group III oils with some ester content, the leaks were reduced and eventually disappeared.

I know there are additives designed to counteract the seal-shrinking effects of PAOs, but this has just been my personal experience. I’m not very confident in using oils with a high PAO content in older engines and prefer to be cautious.

Liqui Moly 4200 fits the bill nicely, and with a very low pour point of -43°F, it likely contains a portion of GTL mixed with Group III base oils. But of course, only the manufacturer truly knows the blend.

LM does not use GTL. Currently, GTL is only used by Shell (the largest user) and Exxon-Mobil. LM generally gets its base stocks from large blenders like BP (Castrol), Chevron, XOM, OMV and Total today. Before the war in Ukraine, they relied heavily on Russian blenders. But GTL still did not make its way down to secondary blenders for the most part. Their PAO and Esters are probably coming from XOM. Their additive package is Lubrizol.

 

[Eugenius]

LM does not use GTL. Currently, GTL is only used by Shell (the largest user) and Exxon-Mobil. LM generally gets its base stocks from large blenders like BP (Castrol), Chevron, XOM, OMV and Total today. Before the war in Ukraine, they relied heavily on Russian blenders. But GTL still did not make its way down to secondary blenders for the most part. Their PAO and Esters are probably coming from XOM. Their additive package is Lubrizol.

Interesting. May I know the source of the information? Usually all oil blenders can buy everything available on the market including base oils, but keep final recipes in secret.

Anyway, if it's HC base oil then it is good quality, NOACK might be higher, but everything else is good, like flash and pour.

 

[edyvw]

Interesting. May I know the source of the information? Usually all oil blenders can buy everything available on the market including base oils, but keep final recipes in secret.

Anyway, if it's HC base oil then it is good quality, NOACK might be higher, but everything else is good, like flash and pour.

Liqui Moly, etc., they all buy base stocks, and then they buy an additive package. Let's say you need an additive package, you buy BMW LL04 and properly blend it with base stocks (they might buy that too). Liqui Moly might not need to go through the BMW approval process bcs. 1. It is a known blender, 2. It is buying an already "approved" additive package. BMW will just require data. Some blenders (the blender I worked for, which also supplied base stocks to Liqui Moly) were not well known outside a very limited geographic area, so we had to send our oil samples to manufacturers for approval, even though we also bought an additive pack from Lubrizol for most oils we blended.
As for GTL, I have not seen any evidence yet of GTL trickling to secondary blenders like Liqui Moly. Yes, you buy base stocks, but then, the company decides which base stocks are still a competitive advantage. Also, there is a price point, and well, generally, there is a race to the bottom, and Liqui Moly was always good at that.
That 4200 is OK oil. It is nothing special, though. Noack, HTHS, etc. indicates everything you would get with something like Castrol Edge 5W30 LL.

 

[Eugenius]

Liqui Moly, etc., they all buy base stocks, and then they buy an additive package. Let's say you need an additive package, you buy BMW LL04 and properly blend it with base stocks (they might buy that too). Liqui Moly might not need to go through the BMW approval process bcs. 1. It is a known blender, 2. It is buying an already "approved" additive package. BMW will just require data. Some blenders (the blender I worked for, which also supplied base stocks to Liqui Moly) were not well known outside a very limited geographic area, so we had to send our oil samples to manufacturers for approval, even though we also bought an additive pack from Lubrizol for most oils we blended.
As for GTL, I have not seen any evidence yet of GTL trickling to secondary blenders like Liqui Moly. Yes, you buy base stocks, but then, the company decides which base stocks are still a competitive advantage. Also, there is a price point, and well, generally, there is a race to the bottom, and Liqui Moly was always good at that.
That 4200 is OK oil. It is nothing special, though. Noack, HTHS, etc. indicates everything you would get with something like Castrol Edge 5W30 LL.

Great info
Thank you

 

[svenson]

BMW also wants certain amount of Group III. The whole package has to be “friendly “ with gaskets etc.

but esters are friendly to seals and gaskets.then it leaves us with oxidation limits the worry of long oci.

They set oxidation limits the way they do. At one point they completely eliminated 0WXX oils in LL01 and LL04 (2018 update). Than they reverse that to certain extent in 2022 update, but not enough for ESP 0W30.

do we know why bmw sets these limits so low,but other manufactures set them higher and get the approvals? i mean you guess its the long oci,but merc also has long oci but they obsiousvly set limits higher,so they get the approval.

GTL is far superior to Group III in cold performance and HTHS. We had discussion about it, is it GrIII or GrV?

this is the name of the thread or is this a question for me, ? sorry i dont understand ..

 

[svenson]

LM does not use GTL. Currently, GTL is only used by Shell (the largest user) and Exxon-Mobil. LM generally gets its base stocks from large blenders like BP (Castrol), Chevron, XOM, OMV and Total today. But GTL still did not make its way down to secondary blenders for the most part. Their PAO and Esters are probably coming from XOM. Their additive package is Lubrizol.

see? its a decent company now.ok,marketing is stupid still ,but everything else is on par with castrol,total and other repectable blenders now..so why all the hating? you should let the ghost of the past behind you.

 

[edyvw]

but esters are friendly to seals and gaskets.then it leaves us with oxidation limits the worry of long oci.

do we know why bmw sets these limits so low,but other manufactures set them higher and get the approvals? i mean you guess its the long oci,but merc also has long oci but they obsiousvly set limits higher,so they get the approval.

this is the name of the thread or is this a question for me, ? sorry i dont understand ..

Gr III or V? Nah, I am just saying, we were questioning what should be. It really falls into GrV with performance.
As for why BMW has higher oxidative requirements? Not sure. That is their thing and internal decisions. They went completely crazy in 2018, retracted in 2022.
Esters are, but there is also a lot of oxidation. Group III is there for other reasons too. No oil today is without some Group III. BMW just specifies that.