Biodiesel Oil.

MolaKule · Apr 20, 2006

Fill in the Blanks.

_________ is a decendant of an ancient plant known as rapeseed.

A low acid form of rapeseed eventually became _________, which stands for _______ _______ ____ ____.

bruce381 · Apr 20, 2006

canola

jaj · Apr 20, 2006

My ex-wife used to work at a company that loaded ships.

The cargo that the stevedores hated the most was "rapeseed" (1976 or so) because it made the decks extremely slippery and hazardous.

I think it was in the early 1980's, the word went around that "rapeseed" was being renamed to make it more acceptable for marketing purposes. It was going to be called "canola".

Same small round black seeds, same farms, same slippery decks on the same ships, but a new name.

Ain't marketing grand?

Cheers
JJ

Pablo · Apr 20, 2006

Canola = Canadian oil low acid

Pablo · Apr 20, 2006

From the brassica plant family.....brocoli, turnips, etc

MolaKule · Apr 21, 2006

Pablo and Bruce have it!

quote:

Canola is a decendant of an ancient plant known as rapeseed.

A low acid form of rapeseed eventually became
Canola, which stands for Canadian Oil Low Acid .

Canola is not reapeseed but it is closely (genetically) related.

GMorg · Apr 27, 2006

As a molecular geneticist in the group, I thought that I would chime in. Canola is a North American tradmark of Oilseed Rape, Rapeseed, or Rapa.

Is is not really low acid. It is low in erucic acid (less than 1% as opposed to 40%) which is considered unfit for consumption. It is also low in Glucosinolates which are very bitter or hot (think horseradish or mature bitter greens) and their degradation products are somewhat toxic.

Decreased glucosinolates made the protien rich meal acceptible as an animal feed and decreased erucic acid made edible what was otherwise lamp oil.

Erucic acid is the cis isomer of an omega 9 fatty acid called brassica acid (trans isomer) and thus the brassica family of plants...

Pablo · Apr 27, 2006

good stuff morg

I drink hemp oil, fish oil and flax oil....everything slides out fine.

OriginHacker21 · May 3, 2006

Wow... the stuff you constantly learn on this site! Who needs college?!

oilyriser · May 3, 2006

what would the viscosity of that stuff be at 100C?

GMorg · May 3, 2006

OLEOCAL®C-102 A, (a Canola with an antioxidant additive)

Viscosity at 25°C (77°F), cSt
67
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F), cSt
36
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F), cSt
8.2
Viscosity Index
211

Looks like a 0W20, too bad it isn't thermostable.

labman · May 3, 2006

Right. I find it incredible that there are serious efforts to use unsaturated vegetable oils as motor oil. As a chemist, I spent 10 years making paint out of them. Except for odd balls like castor and coconut, they are all about the same, unsaturated, and polymerize in the presence of oxygen. It is accelerated by heat, lead, and many other metals. yes, you can doctor them up with a stout dose of antioxidants, but why not start out with something inherently heat stable?

GMorg · May 4, 2006

labman,

Don't be surprized if you start seeing genetically engineered plants producing the starting materials for esterification. The beauty of rapeseed is that it can be engineered to make all sorts of interesting lipids.

labman · May 4, 2006

All the genetic engineering in the world won't stop double bonds from reacting. We already have a ready source of natural saturated 18 carbon tri glycerides, tallow.

GMorg · May 4, 2006

labman,

True enough. But genetic engineering, including engineered enzymes for non-biological reactions, allows for the production of all sorts of reagents.

oilyriser · May 4, 2006

What if the same tank of vegetable oil is used for fuel and lubricant, and gets replaced every 500 mi?

wileyE · May 12, 2006

Isn't a popular transmission additive been using an ester of rapeseed oil successfully for quite a few years now? Marketing it as a whale sperm replacement?

MolaKule · May 19, 2006

quote:

but why not start out with something inherently heat stable?

I think you may be confusing thermal stability (as in VI) with thermooxidative stability.

Thermooxidative stability is the state of resisting oxidation in the presence of oxygen as heat energy is input to the fluid, I.E., as temps rise.

No base oil, whether it be mineral, seed oil, PAO, Polyol esters, PAO esters, or alkyl naphthalenes, are inherently thermooxidatively stable by themselves.

That's why there is a myriad of current AO's and new organic anti-oxidants on the additive market to address the various base oils in terms of oxidation stability.

See:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000023

MolaKule · May 19, 2006

quote:

Isn't a popular transmission additive been using an ester of rapeseed oil successfully for quite a few years now? Marketing it as a whale sperm replacement?

Yes, one company uses superrefined rapeseed oil with jojoba oil and maybe a few others.

bruce381 · May 19, 2006

I'm with labman on this in that there are better things to start with for a PCMO than a high oleic seed oil. Esters for one would be the way to go as in reacted not natural.

"No base oil, whether it be mineral, seed oil, PAO, Polyol esters, PAO esters, or alkyl naphthalenes, are inherently thermooxidatively stable by themselves."

100% true BUT there is a wide variation in terms of oxidation stability with them when inhibited.

Example From memory
with a small amount of whatever AO.

PAO >10,000 hrs ASTM D-943
GPIII >10,000 hrs
GPII >8,000 hrs
GPI >2,000 hrs
High Oleic seed oil
So yeah a tough row to hoe.

bruce

Biodiesel Oil.

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