Big Pay for Execs that cut Jobs....wrong!

[onion]

Very true, and those generational trends continue. Myself, I'm on the tail end of Gen X or the leading edge of Gen Y- depending on whose criteria you choose to follow (born in 1977). And my outlook is roughly in between the two generations... I seem to have attributes of both.

But Gen Y is the future. Job security, loyalty, pensions, early retirement... all that is gone with the wind for the vast majority of Americans. What was the norm for the WWII generation and the Silent Generation is becoming increasingly difficult for the Baby Boomers. Many in my parents generation will never be able to properly retire... and the prospects for Gen X are worse still.

IMO, lots of this is due to demographic factors that we have little control over. U.S. economic hegemony based on the outcome of WWII is slowly waning. The cat is outta the bag on free trade, and Milton Freedman's Invisible Hand is slowly leveling global living standards to something that a Pakistani bricklayer might recognize as prosperity (you get a cookie if you recognize that reference). The American Dream of the 20th century will become more and more elusive as that Invisible Hand levels our playing field with China, India, Mexico, and assorted [censored].

Personally, I'll get by. I was raised just barely above Poor White Trash, and I'm already doing pretty well by those standards. But it's gonna be tough for your Average Joe... and the outcome may not be pretty.

 

[NJC]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
What color is your parachute?

Green ... if you are a CEO.

 

[Kestas]

Once there was a time when the Chrysler board of directors were mulling over how to get through a financial crunch, and that they somehow had to reduce payroll by 10%. Ironically, the board of directors were collectively making 10% as much as the entire white collar staff!

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Well anyway you are giving a very biased viewpoint.

You gave a nice rant but had not one idea as to what to do about the "problem" you are describing nor gave any information that contradicted my "very biased" view point. Do you have any specific ideas?

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
The cat is outta the bag on free trade, and Milton Freedman's Invisible Hand is slowly leveling global living standards to something that a Pakistani bricklayer might recognize as prosperity

Well then it should be really easy to put up some evidence to support your theory...which I'm not seeing.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Please define:
* productivity
* wealth
* definition

and exactly which people are providers, an beneficiaries, and how the whole are lifted by all the above.

I did post a link describing my beliefs but I guess it was too much work to click on it?

I'll provide another example anyway:

If you are going to do a lot of earth work you could hire a lot of people with spoons to do the digging. You could hire fewer people with shovels to do the work. Or you could hire a hand full of people with bulldozers and excavators to do the work. Which do you think will be the most productive and efficient?

Will the people digging with spoons make more money than the people running the machines? NO. Which is harder on your body and health? Spoons.

Which will cost less? The machines, which allows for money and resources to be used on other projects, which can employ more people.

So, do you want people to be digging with spoons?

 

[Gary Allan]

That's not what you implied.

First you have 1000000 spoon diggers. They feed their families and eek out a living.


You come along and don't like that at all. Why should they have a living? Just for spoon digging? Are they for real?

You figure a way to turn the money that was going in their pockets and put it in yours.

They starve. You make it illegal to be hungry ..and throw them out of the country.

Your happy and wealthy.

What you described was "progress".

 

[Steve S]

Most CEOS are overpaid, I do not feel I recieve any quality in my products due to their pay. Busisness is busisness and I want a good product and the quality of the product is removed to pay the CEOs pay.

 

[INMY01TA]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Please define:
* productivity
* wealth
* definition

and exactly which people are providers, an beneficiaries, and how the whole are lifted by all the above.

I did post a link describing my beliefs but I guess it was too much work to click on it?

I'll provide another example anyway:

If you are going to do a lot of earth work you could hire a lot of people with spoons to do the digging. You could hire fewer people with shovels to do the work. Or you could hire a hand full of people with bulldozers and excavators to do the work. Which do you think will be the most productive and efficient?

Will the people digging with spoons make more money than the people running the machines? NO. Which is harder on your body and health? Spoons.

Which will cost less? The machines, which allows for money and resources to be used on other projects, which can employ more people.

So, do you want people to be digging with spoons?
Amen.

 

[INMY01TA]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That's not what you implied.

First you have 1000000 spoon diggers. They feed their families and eek out a living.


You come along and don't like that at all. Why should they have a living? Just for spoon digging? Are they for real?

You figure a way to turn the money that was going in their pockets and put it in yours.

They starve. You make it illegal to be hungry ..and throw them out of the country.

Your happy and wealthy.

What you described was "progress".
Are you for real??

 

[INMY01TA]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Busisness is busisness and I want a good product and the quality of the product is removed to pay the CEOs pay.
Then someone will come along with a better product and force them to improve theirs.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: INMY01TA
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That's not what you implied.

First you have 1000000 spoon diggers. They feed their families and eek out a living.


You come along and don't like that at all. Why should they have a living? Just for spoon digging? Are they for real?

You figure a way to turn the money that was going in their pockets and put it in yours.

They starve. You make it illegal to be hungry ..and throw them out of the country.

Your happy and wealthy.

What you described was "progress".
Are you for real??


You either don't know Tempest ..or know him too well

Keep in mind that there is always the other side of the coin. For every slacker who delights in sucking you dry ..there's his/her evil twin that enjoys it from the other end of the equation. It's even beyond indifference. Devoid of any sensible social code.


Getting back to Tempest's flawed premise ..the argument usually goes that if one man can do the work of a thousand, then a thousand can do the work of a million. Well, we all know that it can't work out that way ..so what are you left with out of higher and higher productivity? Doesn't simple common sense mean that you're going to have more and more unneeded people? And wouldn't someone be a really ..really ...really numb person to not figure out that they're just not going to evaporate or get hung up in some closet until needed.

So ..what does the "productivity means wealth guru" suggest happens at this end of the equation. The one that he never talks about.

..and yes, I'm for real. (said as the Japanese detective said to Michael Douglass in Brack Rain - when he said, "..and I do speak ***@@ Ingrish" )

 

[INMY01TA]

Those spoon diggers could have stayed in school and helped themselves. They have the same opportunities as everyone else. Spoon dig for someone else or get an edumacation. I see the poor in the ghettos around here while doing my job, they could care less about school and judging by their appearance (long braided hair, pants hanging down around their rear end) they aren't looking for work either. Why should they? Our govt pays them for doing nothing in return for their votes.

 

[Gary Allan]

A man of the education will fix everything persuasion, I see.

Which Einstein will be the burger flipper and which Einstein will be on the unemployment line when another Einstein makes one of Tempest's machines??

Now don't get me wrong (said in a calming voice) ..I never suggested not making the machine. I merely pointed out that some people are blind to the required side effects to some evolutions. There's always the other shoe to drop.

Can anyone cite a situation where the other shoe never drops? If one can, one really means "not yet".

There's no magic fairy dust to make half of the equation go away. Some just don't look at it.

 

[INMY01TA]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
A man of the education will fix everything persuasion, I see.

Which Einstein will be the burger flipper and which Einstein will be on the unemployment line when another Einstein makes one of Tempest's machines??
Unemployment is getting worse and worse here lately. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with big machines as I see it.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Population control???

Halve the population and you have no other shoe to avoid.

Of course theres that pesky problem of human rights to get around, at least in some places.

 

[INMY01TA]

Maybe if we stop paying them to reproduce... Enforce our borders as well...

 

[Shannow]

You need the ever expanding population to keep the debt bubble from contracting, and revealing it's true nature (creating money out of nothing).

I doubt business would be in favour of tight borders.

 

[Gary Allan]

Exactly. Those illegals are undocumented consumers.

Allegedly many of our issues are a result of not having enough kids.


Oh ..and for the Brother John Birch crowd. That niche has been an almost constant 11-13% forever. If any group of costly ..unproductive ..economic vacuum cleaners is growing, it's senior citizens. A status that I hope to live long enough to achieve and experience.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Well anyway you are giving a very biased viewpoint.

You gave a nice rant but had not one idea as to what to do about the "problem" you are describing nor gave any information that contradicted my "very biased" view point. Do you have any specific ideas?


The answer is pretty simple stop doing what is not working and reverse course. You know, in between the 50's and 70's when most everything was made in America you had things like lifetime employment with benefits, one income supporting a family, if you didn't like one job you could easily get another, honest days pay etc. Heck you could even start your own business like some of my relatives did back then. All this without even a high school diploma. Rich people weren't so rich and payed much more tax. I remember one old timer who was a physician and he said that a man use to could support a family with no education digging ditches. People born around 1940, my parents' generation, will tell you this if they are honest. Heck I can remember in my own time how things were easier. I'm sure you could dig up some Wallstreet piece 'proving' that everyone is better off now than then because now we have deregulation and tax breaks!

What happened? The people in charge decided to end all that for their benefit. Of course they'll tell you things will be better than they ever were if we keep doing what they tell us to do. I personally think that the newer generation running things don't have the morals, sense of fairness and right and wrong of the previous.