BG products

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The BG flush is one of the gentler flushes kinda like Wynns.

The products everyone usually is after, are their 44k and their MOA(ZDDP additive).
Not that their flush is bad but probably doesnt stand out above the rest like their BG44k apparantly does.

Fred...
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I have had a lot of experience with some of the 'Engine Flush' machines that are being used now, and most of them are so benign that they don't really do anything.
The first machine(s) we bought were the 'Bilstein R-2000(?)' machines. It hooks a hose to the oil filter adapter and one to the drain plug-hole. The machine holds 12 gallons of a 'proprietary' cleaning fluid, and with the engine off(static), it pumps 1 gallon into the car, and then circulates the entire 12 gallons through the engine,back and forth style(washing machine?).This goes for 10 minutes,then it drains and air-evacuates the engine, and repeats the whole process again. Whole service takes about 1/2 hour. During the cleaning,you can see the solution 'squirting' around the rockers and push-rods and all inside the valve covers. Each service uses a fresh 5-micron filter, and the machine gets a new 3-micron filter and 12 gallons of fresh fluiud every 40 flushes.
The kicker is that the filters are very easy to examine after the service is done, and even on the dirtiest, sludgiest engines we've flushed, there just doesn't seem to be much of anything on the filter. However, the engine does seem cleaner, based on the condition of the new oil put in afterward.
These machines are about $10K, and each service costs about $25 in product, so it is an expensive proposition.
About a year and a half ago, I put 9 Wynn's engine flush machines in some stores. Basically, they suck. They are dynamic(engine running) flush machines. All they really do is hook up a remote 5-micron oil filter to the vehicle and run the old oil with a quart of cleaning solution through for 10 minutes or so. When finished, air pressure blows it all out.
Both machines put on a good 'Dog and Pony' show, but the air flush at the end is really the only thing that gets the extra 'goop' out. It is not a service that I feel is worth the money, nor does it do anywhere near what the manufacturers claim it does. I no longer use engine flush machines in any of our locations. That cut out a lot of our potential sales, but I think it was the right thing to do.
I have also used the 'Envirolution' machine and many others, and they are all basically one of the two designs.
For many, many years, when I changed my own oil, I would always blow shop-air through the oil-fill before putting the drain-plug back in, and with the old filter still attached. It has always amazed me how much extra crud and sludge comes out this way. On my 460 Lincoln, I could get almost an entire quart extra of crud out!
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When I have taken apart these engines, they are always exceptionally clean. It does a great job, and air is free!
 
Yeah, what I do is drain the oil, but leave the filter in place. When the oil is finished draining, if convenient I show the customer that nothing else is coming out, so that would normally be all that would come out on an oil change. I then have a tech hold a clean, transparent container next to the drain hole.
I then make sure that the oil dip-stick is fully seated, and block the end of the inlet for the air-cleaner and breather hoses with shop towels. This prevents any potential 'air escape paths'. Now, use a shop towel around a blow-gun, or a 1"thick, 3.5" diameter rubber disc with a 1/4" hole in the center to seat the rubber blow-gun nozzle(which I fabricated for just this purpose).Put the towel or disc on the oil fill hole(valve cover or seperate fill pipe)and put the tip of the blow-gun in and let her rip!
You will be amazed at the crappy, cruddy 'stuff' that comes out. And a lot of it too! In my experience ( I've done this literally thousands of times on customer's cars), you will always get at least a 1/2 quart of sludge out, sometimes even a quart!
After about 1 to 2 minutes of this, I will usually put the oil cap on, and blow some more air through the dip-stick tube. This also gets a little more out. The dip-stick part is especially effective on older Ford vans, the ones where the dip-sticks and the inside of the tube get filled with rust and crud from condensation. This is a really effective and easy way to get rid of most of it.
When I first started doing this about 15 years ago, lots of people thought I was nuts."Your gonna' blow all the seals and gaskets!" they said. I figured if an oil pump operates around 50-70 psi at cruise, How could I possibly build more pressure than that in an engine with a big open hole in the bottom of it?
Anyway, I have never had one, single problem from doing this. In fact, great word of mouth from happy customers has sent me a lot of extra business over the years.
Incedentally, one of the better success' with this technique is with Mitsubishis. At around 20-30,000 miles, some Mitsu 4-cylinders will sometimes develop a 'tick' at idle, and will never go away.
This 'air-flush' has silenced that 'tick' on dozens of cars sent to my stores.
Instead of using a flush machine, we just use a pour-in cleaner with the air-flush and charge aywhere from $20 to $40 for the service.
The flush machine service usually retails for $89 to over $150 depending on where you get it done.
Same results. A lot less expense for the customer. No equipment to buy.Happy customers.
Win, win, win!
Even so, I would be very interested in hearing others opinion of this.
 
palmerwmd
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......................How can the BG engine flush treatment possibly be considered one of the gentler treatments out there when you can only leave it in 10-15 minutes as opposed to hundreds, if not thousands of miles like Neutra 131 or Auto-Rx? If there is a harsher treatment yet, I don't want to see it!
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In its categpry, its one of the gently ones.
i e. in the category of, "puor in idle short then drain".

additives you leave in, for the duratiuon are an entirely differnt product IMHO.

Fred...
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Products called a "Flush" are just that makes no difference if you pour it in for 10 minutes, or you used a pressure system to inject solvents into your engine. Solvents shock the metal that means "PARTICLES" flowing through your oil. Solvents break loose carbon and assorted other third party abrasives, however thery don't dissolve them thereby making them safe for your oil screen, piston port, wrist pin and they don't work in cleansing your engine. Also when you change out your oil some of that solvent chemistry stays in the engine and over time your
seals are going to need replacement. Auto-Rx is not a sovent it is a metal cleaner formulated to remove carbon, third party abrasives, sludge safely over time. If I could make Auto-Rx any faster I would on the other hand Auto-Rx is guaranteed or don't pay (I don't see that on these 5 minute solvents) always read the M.S.D.S.
on any product you put in your engine or transmission it probalbly will save you a lot of
trouble.
 
quote:

Originally posted by cobravenom71:
...put the tip of the blow-gun in and let her rip!
You will be amazed at the crappy, cruddy 'stuff' that comes out. And a lot of it too!


Holy smokes, that's freaking brilliant. I'm going to try it in the spring (moving soon, need to set up my new garage).

Thanks for the detailed description!

Robert
 
Porterdog, you are welcome. I hope you have good luck with it. Reading these posts, I am very interested in the 'Auto-RX'. Think I'll get some and try it out.
 
I don't believe so, because when you take the old filter off, it is still full of oil.
Most vehicles will not let oil flow into the filter unless the engine is operating. When we change oil, we commonly add the full capacity of oil before the filter is ever installed, and none ever leaks out of the mounting stud.
But I did suspect that at one time, so I screwed a new filter on and did the process, and when I took the filter off agian there was no oil in it. My conclusion is that any crud coming out with the air flush is not coming from the filter.
By the way, you can do the air-flush with the filter off, and nothing ever comes out of the mounting stud.
we just leave the old filter on as a precaution and to keep from making a possible mess.
Plus, the cleanliness of the new oil after start up is fantastic. Especially if you have a car that 'dirtys' the oil as soon as you put it in.
Most of the time the oil will stay cleaner for a much longer period of time. To me, that means that there is less crud left over from the previous oil change to contaminate the fresh oil before it even has a chnce to start working!
Like I said before, this is all just from practical experience.But I can say for sure that the customers love it, and it definately keeps the oil cleaner for longer. Good luck!
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Hey, I'm not big on cleaners or extreme measures used to clean a crankcase ... but I might try this on Friday when I'm due for my next oil change. I just need to be sure that I can block off all the hoses running back into my intake system.

I don't doubt what venom says about the oil filter. It's dead-end space ... and if you force more crud into the dirt filter (which will be thrown away anyway, I don't see a problem.
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Because my car (Honda Civic) has a 4.0 qt capacity and I can get nearly a full 4 quarts out of it when I drain, I doubt I'll get much more out ... but I'll never know unless I try.
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venom, you might want to copy-and-paste that description of your procedure into a more accurately labeled thread in a more appropriate section. I'm sure there are others who'd like to read it ... but don't have any interest in "BG Products."

--- Bror Jace
 
Mr. Jace,
In my experience, the Honda 4-cylinders actually release a lot of extra fluid with this air-flush.(up to about 1/2 quart!).Doesn't sound like much, but to me that's significant!
As far as completely blocking all the air escape paths, it isn't really all that critical. Just do the best you can. Even so, you will be amazed at what extra you get out!
Jace, as far as 'cutting and pasting' this to another post, or section...I have absolutely no idea how to do that! I very new to computers and the internet.
But if you can do it, then by all means be my guest! Thanks, and Good luck! Kit.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ken:

quote:

Originally posted by mdv:
How would BG 44K (the in the tank one)compare to Amsoil's PI Performance Improver? I noticed that the BG 44K is roughly double the cost of the Amsoil. Should the products work similar or is the BG that much better at removing deposits?

Note that Amsoil's 6 oz. bottle of PI only treats 10 to 15 gallons of gasoline, so you'll need two of these for a large tank.

Ken


Ken the quick shot in the 6oz bottle is diluted and designed as a point of purchase product(quick sale)

If you want the best use the full strength PI in the 16 oz bottle. First dose is 6 oz per 10 gallons then only 1 oz per 10 gallons after that.
 
cobravenom, I will take your excellent post and turn it into a new thread. It's such a great idea it deserves to be seen on it's own. It certainly sounds like you guys cared about your customer's cars, it's refreshing to see that in a business that usually just wants to get the customer in and out as fast as they can.
 
In regard to the air flush, it should be pointed out that the amount of pressure the engine seals can stand has absolutely no relationship to the pressure generated by the oil pump. The crankshaft and valvecover seals do not seal the pressurized oiling system, they seal the unpressurized crankcase and upper engine.
 
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