Best New Mix - Size SUV ?

[trd1zz]

JD Power is junk science. It is the perception of the problem by the owners. It relies on the owners reporting back.
Half of the owners of Tundra still think the truck is better than others, although they're on second engine replacement.

Surveying the original owner of a 3 year old vehicle about the problems they've experienced with their vehicle over the most recent 12 months is junk science?

I guess all VW owners are just really, really nit-picky. And all Toyota/Lexus owners are just conspiring together to not report any problems. What's truly amazing though is that this psychological phenomenon holds consistently year after year. You may be on to something here.

 

[edyvw]

Surveying the original owner of a 3 year old vehicle about the problems they've experienced with their vehicle over the most recent 12 months is junk science?

I guess all VW owners are just really, really nit-picky. And all Toyota/Lexus owners are just conspiring together to not report any problems. What's truly amazing though is that this psychological phenomenon holds consistently year after year. You may be on to something here.

Lol, it is junk science. That is not how statistics work. I do that for a living. It is the owner's opinion. JD Power, if it wanted to get real data, should survey dealerships and find a variable that measures reliability, not owners' views, which are voluntary in nature. Some owners might see something as problematic, some might not. It does not matter the brand. Expectations from high end cars are much higher than from Frigidaire, I mean, Toyota.
It is a survey, NOT statistics, that tells you facts. It is opinion.

 

[OVERKILL]

Agreed there's some variability year to year (which again is to be expected as each study year is looking at a different model year). But the point is VW is consistently near the very bottom and well below the study average. While Toyota/Lexus is consistently toward (or at) the top and well above the study average.

Average the data out over a 5 year period of studies (2021-2025) and it smooths the year to year variability out that seems to be bothering you - and it makes the above even more apparent. (simple task for AI)



I wouldn't say several. Again, average the data out over the last 5 years and you'll see only BMW and Porsche rank better than Acura.

I averaged the last 11 years (2015-2025) in Excel and this is the result:

Acura ranks below Mercedes, BMW and Porsche, of the German luxury marques only Audi ranks lower.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Lol, it is junk science. That is not how statistics work. I do that for a living. It is the owner's opinion. JD Power, if it wanted to get real data, should survey dealerships and find a variable that measures reliability, not owners' views, which are voluntary in nature. Some owners might see something as problematic, some might not. It does not matter the brand. Expectations from high end cars are much higher than from Frigidaire, I mean, Toyota.
It is a survey, NOT statistics, that tells you facts. It is opinion.

While I still have trouble trusting a vw, my experiences with Toyota push me to agree with yours. We’ve had a few in the family since 97 that are all plagued with rattles, oil leaks, unexpected repairs.

Mother in law has a newer rav 4 that rattles in the roof (sunroof) unbelievably bad. I can’t stand driving it. There’s a bulletin to replace the whole sunroof but she’s out of warranty now.

Mom had a 97 Camry that always had a rattle, leak (oil, coolant, etc), exhaust problem, suspension problem. It was never ending.

We had a 11 Sienna that while it was a good van, it was a rattle box, we were always wondering when the sliding doors were going to break, etc.

I had a new Corolla for a month as a rental. I was halfway excited as I’d consider one for a beater, but my Mazda 6 is so much quieter and a better ride while only being about 2mpg worse (the way I drive it at least). The Corolla was no better than 36-38mpg max, was loud, uncomfortable, the radio interface sucked, etc.

With what good I read about vw lately, I’d almost be tempted to try one of their vehicles before a Toyota (if I didn’t like my Mazda…I’ll probably get another Mazda unless they go down a road I don’t like with their powertrain and interface things…almost seems like they may be doing that with the higher tech new cx5).

 

[trd1zz]

Lol, it is junk science. That is not how statistics work. I do that for a living. It is the owner's opinion. JD Power, if it wanted to get real data, should survey dealerships and find a variable that measures reliability, not owners' views, which are voluntary in nature. Some owners might see something as problematic, some might not. It does not matter the brand. Expectations from high end cars are much higher than from Frigidaire, I mean, Toyota.
It is a survey, NOT statistics, that tells you facts. It is opinion.

It's an owner survey. This was pointed out a few pages back, and their study methodology is clear as day. That you are asking for something else does not discredit the results.

The only fact here is that VW owners are consistently reporting much more problems than average.

And since when did VW become a "high end" car? A Lexus is a high end car. A Porsche is a high end car. Both of which consistently do VASTLY better than VW does in these studies, year after year.

 

[trd1zz]

I averaged the last 11 years (2015-2025) in Excel and this is the result:
View attachment 291926

Acura ranks below Mercedes, BMW and Porsche, of the German luxury marques only Audi ranks lower.

If you run it for 10 years.

On a 5 year run (as previously mentioned - and more indicative of the newer vehicles out there on the market) BMW and Porsche are the only Euro (not just German) brands that perform better than Acura.

That said on the 10 year view it is interesting to see just how much better Lexus performs (and Toyota to a very slightly lesser extent) versus the field.

 

[edyvw]

It's an owner survey. This was pointed out a few pages back, and their study methodology is clear as day. That you are asking for something else does not discredit the results.

The only fact here is that VW owners are consistently reporting much more problems than average.

And since when did VW become a "high end" car? A Lexus is a high end car. A Porsche is a high end car. Both of which consistently do VASTLY better than VW does in these studies, year after year.

Surveys are just that, the survey. You need to make people do surveys. Some people will do it more than others. That is why a survey is not accepted as something that is conclusive.
Ask the doctors if they will use the new surgery technique based on the methodology JD Power employs. There are thousands of variables that play here. People have high expectations of Mercedes. A lot of money, excellent performance. But that comes with complexity. Most things that Mercedes introduced in 2000 are still not available on Toyota, Honda etc. But that comes with complexity. Owners of current Tundra/Sequoia just found out the hard way what happens when the company misses 30 years of development and then decides to "catch up." But old beliefs die hard. They are still convinced Tundra is better than the American trio, regardless that it is dead last in sales (an understatement). That will be reflected in the survey, as it is an opinion.

 

[edyvw]

While I still have trouble trusting a vw, my experiences with Toyota push me to agree with yours. We’ve had a few in the family since 97 that are all plagued with rattles, oil leaks, unexpected repairs.

Mother in law has a newer rav 4 that rattles in the roof (sunroof) unbelievably bad. I can’t stand driving it. There’s a bulletin to replace the whole sunroof but she’s out of warranty now.

Mom had a 97 Camry that always had a rattle, leak (oil, coolant, etc), exhaust problem, suspension problem. It was never ending.

We had a 11 Sienna that while it was a good van, it was a rattle box, we were always wondering when the sliding doors were going to break, etc.

I had a new Corolla for a month as a rental. I was halfway excited as I’d consider one for a beater, but my Mazda 6 is so much quieter and a better ride while only being about 2mpg worse (the way I drive it at least). The Corolla was no better than 36-38mpg max, was loud, uncomfortable, the radio interface sucked, etc.

With what good I read about vw lately, I’d almost be tempted to try one of their vehicles before a Toyota (if I didn’t like my Mazda…I’ll probably get another Mazda unless they go down a road I don’t like with their powertrain and interface things…almost seems like they may be doing that with the higher tech new cx5).

My wife was born in Chicago. She called our Sienna a CTA, reminding her of the train rattling when commuting there.
2018 Sequoia is better assembled, although every time I close door I wonder how they managed to make doors so cheap that they are lighter then on my Tiguan or BMW 328.

 

[OVERKILL]

If you run it for 10 years.

On a 5 year run (as previously mentioned - and more indicative of the newer vehicles out there on the market) BMW and Porsche are the only Euro (not just German) brands that perform better than Acura.

That said on the 10 year view it is interesting to see just how much better Lexus performs (and Toyota to a very slightly lesser extent) versus the field.

Here's 5 years, Acura is still below Mercedes:

I'm surprised at how well Buick does, in both time frames.

 

[trd1zz]

Surveys are just that, the survey. You need to make people do surveys. Some people will do it more than others. That is why a survey is not accepted as something that is conclusive.
Ask the doctors if they will use the new surgery technique based on the methodology JD Power employs. There are thousands of variables that play here. People have high expectations of Mercedes. A lot of money, excellent performance. But that comes with complexity. Most things that Mercedes introduced in 2000 are still not available on Toyota, Honda etc. But that comes with complexity. Owners of current Tundra/Sequoia just found out the hard way what happens when the company misses 30 years of development and then decides to "catch up." But old beliefs die hard. They are still convinced Tundra is better than the American trio, regardless that it is dead last in sales (an understatement). That will be reflected in the survey, as it is an opinion.

So we're back to square one. VW owners are more likely to report problems, while Toyota/Lexus owners are more likely to not notice problems, or hide and/or refuse to report problems (for some strange reason). And that's the reason Toyota/Lexus does well on the surveys while VW does poorly. And this phenomenon is consistent and keeps occurring year after year. Interesting interpretation.

 

[trd1zz]

Here's 5 years, Acura is still below Mercedes:
View attachment 291932

I'm surprised at how well Buick does, in both time frames.

Maybe not so simple of a task for AI then, lol. I'll take your word for it.

I'm a bit surprised by Buick also, although GM in general seems to do fairly well. Chevy, cadillac are not far behind.

 

[OVERKILL]

Maybe not so simple of a task for AI then, lol. I'll take your word for it.

I'm a bit surprised by Buick also, although GM in general seems to do fairly well. Chevy, cadillac are not far behind.

Yes, though I find it weird how much lower GMC ranks than the other GM brands.

 

[edyvw]

So we're back to square one. VW owners are more likely to report problems, while Toyota/Lexus owners are more likely to not notice problems, or hide and/or refuse to report problems (for some strange reason). And that's the reason Toyota/Lexus does well on the surveys while VW does poorly. And this phenomenon is consistent and keeps occurring year after year. Interesting interpretation.

There is no strange reason. My neighbor on my question how is her car serving (trying to start conversation so I can tell her to go check suspension as I could hear her coming from 50 yards away) said: never had an issue. Best car I had.
Than when she couldn’t get out of driveway and had to tow her Sienna to local dealership, she got hit by $4,000 bill.
My FIL inly drives Lexus and Honda Pilot. Between one ES and one Pilot he went through 4 transmissions (2 each).
Every time I buy VW or BMW, he asks: are you sure about reliability?
So, it is opinion and expectations. Based on situational awareness of average driver of Camry, I wouldn’t be surprised if they lost 5&6th gear and thought all is fine. Kind of like current Tundra owners: all good, I have constantly new engine in.

 

[stormgol]

Plastic engine components are for cost and weight saving .

https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/how-we...golf-gti-oil-pan-and-how-it-can-happen-to-you

your showing an aftermarket pan built like the Bismarck battleship. this test mean nothing. as the average user will never experience this. it's like the GR engine block. of course there are tons of Billet blocks and parts for it to make it stronger. i live in the worst winter conditions with huge chunks of ice everywhere and never damaged my vehicle. in 36 years driving, never damaged a pan. and i drive on average 65 000 kilometers a year. with 6 months winter.

 

[GRjdm]

your showing an aftermarket pan built like the Bismarck battleship. this test mean nothing. as the average user will never experience this. it's like the GR engine block. of course there are tons of Billet blocks and parts for it to make it stronger. i live in the worst winter conditions with huge chunks of ice everywhere and never damaged my vehicle. in 36 years driving, never damaged a pan. and i drive on average 65 000 kilometers a year. with 6 months winter.

you might want to click on the first link from FCPEuro..

 

[4WD]

Wow! They still make Buick? lol

It's ranked near the top. I should look into it. I don't recall seeing any on the roads or parked in our neighborhood where I walk the dog.
We must not be all very smart where I live.

I know 3 with an Enclave - 1 is a repeat buyer …