Best New Mix - Size SUV ?

[Ws6]

For real life use cases, MANY. Your thinking is very subjective, go with quality, not fan boy zeal.

YEt Toyotal seems to be mostly a fanboy item at this point.

Amusingly, Acura regularly ranks below several German marques on the JD Power Dependability study, lol.

Having owned an Acura and yeah...

Toyota makes the best cars for the middle and lower classes, as well as for adults managing their lives and protecting their retirement funds. Family cars need to offer utility, reliability, and economy...that's how the most responsible live. My cars don't need to pretend to perform like those cars that most of us cannot afford, and whose missions are far beyond normal family life. You see boring...I see financial independence.

You want financial independence? Buy a 1990s Toyota and leave new stuff alone.

 

[Ws6]

Wow! They still make Buick? lol

It's ranked near the top. I should look into it. I don't recall seeing any on the roads or parked in our neighborhood where I walk the dog.
We must not be all very smart where I live.

They're all over.

 

[Ws6]

Jeep, for example, moved down considerably from 2024 -> 2025. Ford moved up, a huge amount, and GMC also moved up, along with Cadillac. Honda also moved up, swapping spots with Jeep.

Chrysler, which has a single vehicle (Pacifica) doesn't surprise me, and VW/Audi/Land Rover tend to always be near the bottom, but, as noted, many of the brands in the middle move all over the place, from above average to way below average, from way below average to above average...etc.

While the Germans tend to get ripped on (including in this thread), both BMW and Porsche tend to do well on these studies and are typically above average.

Here's 2023, where Genesis, and Kia, rank above Toyota Porsche is way down from 2024/2025
View attachment 291805

Changing considerably again from where it was the previous year:
View attachment 291806

As I said, there's a LOT of variability in these studies.

My 2023 Kia has been excellent.

 

[GRjdm]

Got a Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid Max earlier this year to replace an older Sienna.
No complaints. Avg 25 MPG and its TA24A hybrid engine has enough output to move the 5100lb 3 row SUV.

 

[edyvw]

Got a Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid Max earlier this year to replace an older Sienna.
No complaints. Avg 25 MPG and its TA24A hybrid engine has enough output to move the 5100lb 3 row SUV.

Nothing special. It shows how late Toyota is with turbo technology. They have been struggling with it for the last 25 years. Always late.

 

[edyvw]

Amusingly, Acura regularly ranks below several German marques on the JD Power Dependability study, lol.

Not that I have any respect for JD Power, but the Pilot we have was far less reliable than the Tiguan or the BMW.
The thing with Japanese cars is that they're good if things are super simple. Once things get complicated, oh boy....

 

[edyvw]

latest Toyotas are uninspiring both mechanically and on reliability. seriously. who thought it was a genius idea to put an 1.6 liter 3 cylinder aluminum block engine in a 300hp turbo car? like seriously. if you want to see how it is done, check the latest Volkswagen Golf R with cast iron engine block.

Ah they have new brave idea, 4cyl 400hp to replace BMW B58 in new Supra

 

[trd1zz]

Jeep, for example, moved down considerably from 2024 -> 2025. Ford moved up, a huge amount, and GMC also moved up, along with Cadillac. Honda also moved up, swapping spots with Jeep.

Chrysler, which has a single vehicle (Pacifica) doesn't surprise me, and VW/Audi/Land Rover tend to always be near the bottom, but, as noted, many of the brands in the middle move all over the place, from above average to way below average, from way below average to above average...etc.

While the Germans tend to get ripped on (including in this thread), both BMW and Porsche tend to do well on these studies and are typically above average.

Here's 2023, where Genesis, and Kia, rank above Toyota Porsche is way down from 2024/2025
View attachment 291805

Changing considerably again from where it was the previous year:
View attachment 291806

As I said, there's a LOT of variability in these studies.

Agreed there's some variability year to year (which again is to be expected as each study year is looking at a different model year). But the point is VW is consistently near the very bottom and well below the study average. While Toyota/Lexus is consistently toward (or at) the top and well above the study average.

Average the data out over a 5 year period of studies (2021-2025) and it smooths the year to year variability out that seems to be bothering you - and it makes the above even more apparent. (simple task for AI)

Amusingly, Acura regularly ranks below several German marques on the JD Power Dependability study, lol.

I wouldn't say several. Again, average the data out over the last 5 years and you'll see only BMW and Porsche rank better than Acura.

 

[GRjdm]

Nothing special. It shows how late Toyota is with turbo technology. They have been struggling with it for the last 25 years. Always late.

Yes.. Toyota is late to the turbo game because 1) it is a conservative manufacturer and 2) its prior NA powerplants were "fuel efficient" compared to other engines of their generation. BTW, these Toyota turbo engines are dual injection. European and other makes are still "struggling" with direct injection only in the US market.

 

[GRjdm]

latest Toyotas are uninspiring both mechanically and on reliability. seriously. who thought it was a genius idea to put an 1.6 liter 3 cylinder aluminum block engine in a 300hp turbo car? like seriously. if you want to see how it is done, check the latest Volkswagen Golf R with cast iron engine block.

My currently daily is a GR Corolla with the engine you just described and previously owned an Audi with the EA888 inline 4/IS38 turbo engine which is the same as Golf R. For daily driven performance engine reliability, the main concern isn't 3 cylinder aluminum block with liners vs 4 cylinder iron block. It ought to be EA888's plastic water pump housing, plastic oil pan and host of other plastic engine components.

 

[edyvw]

Yes.. Toyota is late to the turbo game because 1) it is a conservative manufacturer and 2) its prior NA powerplants were "fuel efficient" compared to other engines of their generation. BTW, these Toyota turbo engines are dual injection. European and other makes are still "struggling" with direct injection only in the US market.

No, Toyota had turbo engines before. However, they don't fallow. They had issues in Europe with turbo diesel engines (ended up buying them from BMW). Here, the only engine that they have that is playing in nig NBA is the engine they bought from BMW. By the way, 2.4 has most of the solutions borrowed from the B46/48 BMW engine, bcs. Toyota and BMW do joint stuff for more than 20yrs.
On DI note, A. European engines actually do have dual injection. VW EA888 engines in Europe run on dual injection. Dual injection is introduced because of the inability to resolve CBU, which was particularly the case in the Toyota 2.5 V6 engine, 4GR-FSE engine, which was probably the biggest offender on the market. To overcome that, Toyota went the expensive route, dual injection; others solved PCV issues, where the root of the problem is.

 

[edyvw]

My currently daily is a GR Corolla with the engine you just described and previously owned an Audi with the EA888 inline 4/IS38 turbo engine which is the same as Golf R. For daily driven performance engine reliability, the main concern isn't 3 cylinder aluminum block with liners vs 4 cylinder iron block. It ought to be EA888's plastic water pump housing, plastic oil pan and host of other plastic engine components.

It is not, it is crappy rod bearings and a tendency to self-ignite.

 

[edyvw]

Agreed there's some variability year to year (which again is to be expected as each study year is looking at a different model year). But the point is VW is consistently near the very bottom and well below the study average. While Toyota/Lexus is consistently toward (or at) the top and well above the study average.

Average the data out over a 5 year period of studies (2021-2025) and it smooths the year to year variability out that seems to be bothering you - and it makes the above even more apparent. (simple task for AI)



I wouldn't say several. Again, average the data out over the last 5 years and you'll see only BMW and Porsche rank better than Acura.

JD Power is junk science. It is the perception of the problem by the owners. It relies on the owners reporting back.
Half of the owners of Tundra still think the truck is better than others, although they're on second engine replacement.

 

[GRjdm]

No, Toyota had turbo engines before. However, they don't fallow. They had issues in Europe with turbo diesel engines (ended up buying them from BMW). Here, the only engine that they have that is playing in nig NBA is the engine they bought from BMW. By the way, 2.4 has most of the solutions borrowed from the B46/48 BMW engine, bcs. Toyota and BMW do joint stuff for more than 20yrs.
On DI note, A. European engines actually do have dual injection. VW EA888 engines in Europe run on dual injection. Dual injection is introduced because of the inability to resolve CBU, which was particularly the case in the Toyota 2.5 V6 engine, 4GR-FSE engine, which was probably the biggest offender on the market. To overcome that, Toyota went the expensive route, dual injection; others solved PCV issues, where the root of the problem is.

Yes.. the plastic intake manifold in my Audi had marking meant for port injectors. VW/Audi just decided not to install those for US market vehicles. Intake valve deposit is still an issue with VW/Audi DI-only engines

 

[edyvw]

Yes.. the plastic intake manifold in my Audi had marking meant for port injectors. VW/Audi just decided not to install those for US market vehicles. Intake valve deposit is still an issue with VW/Audi DI-only engines

Well, they tend not to burn out the owner out of nowhere, and if you drive faster than 80mph, VW actually honors the warranty, unlike some.

 

[4WD]

JD Power is junk science. It is the perception of the problem by the owners. It relies on the owners reporting back.
Half of the owners of Tundra still think the truck is better than others, although they're on second engine replacement.

Yeah, just completed a vendor review with the engineers - I should of brought cheese if you know what I mean …
Finally I said we delivered a multimillion dollar project ahead of schedule and under budget - please list a few positives that led to that …

 

[GRjdm]

It is not, it is crappy rod bearings and a tendency to self-ignite.

do you have personal ownership experience with GR Yaris or GR Corolla or is this based on watching Youtube videos? What I have stated is my ownership experience of both EA888 and G16E-GTS vehicles

 

[edyvw]

do you have personal ownership experience with GR Yaris or GR Corolla or is this based on watching Youtube videos? What I have stated is my ownership experience of both EA888 and G16E-GTS vehicles

I like to BBQ, not to get BBQ'ed.
Plus, I like to drive above 80mph, and if something goes wrong, having company honor warranty (if under warranty). Generally, fun vehicles should be able to drive more than 80mph without disintegrating.
I had three EA888, and the 14-year-old one is still in the garage. Unlike Toyota, still nothing creeks, excellent fit and finish etc. etc.

 

[stormgol]

My currently daily is a GR Corolla with the engine you just described and previously owned an Audi with the EA888 inline 4/IS38 turbo engine which is the same as Golf R. For daily driven performance engine reliability, the main concern isn't 3 cylinder aluminum block with liners vs 4 cylinder iron block. It ought to be EA888's plastic water pump housing, plastic oil pan and host of other plastic engine components.

plastic technology has evolved to the point that many rivals steels in strength. no concern there. i had a drum set made from Hemp reinforced plastics and it was close to indestructible.

 

[GRjdm]

plastic technology has evolved to the point that many rivals steels in strength. no concern there. i had a drum set made from Hemp reinforced plastics and it was close to indestructible.

Plastic engine components are for cost and weight saving .

https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/how-we...golf-gti-oil-pan-and-how-it-can-happen-to-you