Best looking F-150 that I've seen in years...
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I watched five 6.doh diesels (three E-450's, two F-450's) turn two companies from having most (or in one case, ALL) vehicles be Fords to never buying another.
One Econoline was dumped after Ford pout north of $30,000 into it in a (futile) attempt to get it to run right for more than two weeks. IIRC, it got two sets of heads, three turbochargers, one intercooler, dozens of electronic parts, and three EGR coolers. The other two are still in service...they run sort of OK, if you ignore the constant CEL's. The company has not bought a diesel Ford since...they bought one Ford V10, two GMC's (one gas, one Duramax), and an International (with Maxx-Force DT power). They seem to be switching to gas-engine GMC's.
One F-450 wound up getting a NEW engine (actually shipped directly from the factory to the dealer, by Ford) when the first one spun a bearing due to an oil pan full of diesel fuel. That engine blew recently and spectacularly, with about 108,000 miles...a piston shattered. It was repowered with a 5.9 Cummins...and now makes more power, burns less fuel, and nary a CEL to bee seen! Both F-450's are still in service with Cummins power, the company has bought one Ford since. Their two most recent truck purchases have been Rams (a 5500 and a 4500) with 6.7 Cummins power. The owner says he has probably bought his last Ford.
In perspective, his two 6.doh trucks managed fewer miles COMBINED than his 2001 F-550 4x4 repo truck: that one went 553,000 miles before engine failure.
One Econoline was dumped after Ford pout north of $30,000 into it in a (futile) attempt to get it to run right for more than two weeks. IIRC, it got two sets of heads, three turbochargers, one intercooler, dozens of electronic parts, and three EGR coolers. The other two are still in service...they run sort of OK, if you ignore the constant CEL's. The company has not bought a diesel Ford since...they bought one Ford V10, two GMC's (one gas, one Duramax), and an International (with Maxx-Force DT power). They seem to be switching to gas-engine GMC's.
One F-450 wound up getting a NEW engine (actually shipped directly from the factory to the dealer, by Ford) when the first one spun a bearing due to an oil pan full of diesel fuel. That engine blew recently and spectacularly, with about 108,000 miles...a piston shattered. It was repowered with a 5.9 Cummins...and now makes more power, burns less fuel, and nary a CEL to bee seen! Both F-450's are still in service with Cummins power, the company has bought one Ford since. Their two most recent truck purchases have been Rams (a 5500 and a 4500) with 6.7 Cummins power. The owner says he has probably bought his last Ford.
In perspective, his two 6.doh trucks managed fewer miles COMBINED than his 2001 F-550 4x4 repo truck: that one went 553,000 miles before engine failure.
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
Also on an added note we serviced 2 E-350's with 800,000km on them, yes they had coolers replaced along with other maintenance related components. They recently sold them, now they have Terra star's with MAXXFORCE 7's. you wanna see issues???? Wow
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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I watched five 6.doh diesels (three E-450's, two F-450's) turn two companies from having most (or in one case, ALL) vehicles be Fords to never buying another.
One Econoline was dumped after Ford pout north of $30,000 into it in a (futile) attempt to get it to run right for more than two weeks. IIRC, it got two sets of heads, three turbochargers, one intercooler, dozens of electronic parts, and three EGR coolers. The other two are still in service...they run sort of OK, if you ignore the constant CEL's. The company has not bought a diesel Ford since...they bought one Ford V10, two GMC's (one gas, one Duramax), and an International (with Maxx-Force DT power). They seem to be switching to gas-engine GMC's.
One F-450 wound up getting a NEW engine (actually shipped directly from the factory to the dealer, by Ford) when the first one spun a bearing due to an oil pan full of diesel fuel. That engine blew recently and spectacularly, with about 108,000 miles...a piston shattered. It was repowered with a 5.9 Cummins...and now makes more power, burns less fuel, and nary a CEL to bee seen! Both F-450's are still in service with Cummins power, the company has bought one Ford since. Their two most recent truck purchases have been Rams (a 5500 and a 4500) with 6.7 Cummins power. The owner says he has probably bought his last Ford.
In perspective, his two 6.doh trucks managed fewer miles COMBINED than his 2001 F-550 4x4 repo truck: that one went 553,000 miles before engine failure.
This is a piston from a Cummins ISM:
Camshaft failure on a Cummins ISX:
Injector failure on a Cummins ISB (2007 Dodge 2500):
International DT466 injector failure:
I can go on.......... And the fun part is that I either took the above pictures, or saw the engines with my own eyes. These aren't scabbed off the Internet.
I'd bet many of the issues you described were either dealer incompetence (many aren't good with diesels) or could have been completely avoided with an EGR delete.
Now, do I think the EGR delete is a reasonable expectation of a user of one of these engines? No, I do not. But EGR cooler failure is the source of the vast majority of the issues with both the 6.0L PSD as well as the VT365. Jon (slammds15) has had ZERO issues with his once the EGR was deleted. It is a [censored] design that is naturally prone to failure (and he was using the "updated" International EGR coolers BTW.....)
Injector issues can oft be traced back to either:
A) Ford's poor programming when they tried to make the engine "quiet"
B) Improper fuel system maintenance (wrong filters used, filter never changed.....etc) Jon can post the pictures of the filter he pulled out of his truck when he bought it. DEALER MAINTAINED. The filter had never been changed.......
I watched five 6.doh diesels (three E-450's, two F-450's) turn two companies from having most (or in one case, ALL) vehicles be Fords to never buying another.
One Econoline was dumped after Ford pout north of $30,000 into it in a (futile) attempt to get it to run right for more than two weeks. IIRC, it got two sets of heads, three turbochargers, one intercooler, dozens of electronic parts, and three EGR coolers. The other two are still in service...they run sort of OK, if you ignore the constant CEL's. The company has not bought a diesel Ford since...they bought one Ford V10, two GMC's (one gas, one Duramax), and an International (with Maxx-Force DT power). They seem to be switching to gas-engine GMC's.
One F-450 wound up getting a NEW engine (actually shipped directly from the factory to the dealer, by Ford) when the first one spun a bearing due to an oil pan full of diesel fuel. That engine blew recently and spectacularly, with about 108,000 miles...a piston shattered. It was repowered with a 5.9 Cummins...and now makes more power, burns less fuel, and nary a CEL to bee seen! Both F-450's are still in service with Cummins power, the company has bought one Ford since. Their two most recent truck purchases have been Rams (a 5500 and a 4500) with 6.7 Cummins power. The owner says he has probably bought his last Ford.
In perspective, his two 6.doh trucks managed fewer miles COMBINED than his 2001 F-550 4x4 repo truck: that one went 553,000 miles before engine failure.
This is a piston from a Cummins ISM:
Camshaft failure on a Cummins ISX:
Injector failure on a Cummins ISB (2007 Dodge 2500):
International DT466 injector failure:
I can go on.......... And the fun part is that I either took the above pictures, or saw the engines with my own eyes. These aren't scabbed off the Internet.
I'd bet many of the issues you described were either dealer incompetence (many aren't good with diesels) or could have been completely avoided with an EGR delete.
Now, do I think the EGR delete is a reasonable expectation of a user of one of these engines? No, I do not. But EGR cooler failure is the source of the vast majority of the issues with both the 6.0L PSD as well as the VT365. Jon (slammds15) has had ZERO issues with his once the EGR was deleted. It is a [censored] design that is naturally prone to failure (and he was using the "updated" International EGR coolers BTW.....)
Injector issues can oft be traced back to either:
A) Ford's poor programming when they tried to make the engine "quiet"
B) Improper fuel system maintenance (wrong filters used, filter never changed.....etc) Jon can post the pictures of the filter he pulled out of his truck when he bought it. DEALER MAINTAINED. The filter had never been changed.......
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
Deleting the EGR does. And using the proper filters of course.
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
Deleting the EGR does. And using the proper filters of course.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
You mean Navistar should have to buy them back. Anyways there is no point to this conversation, you have an ignorant opinion and even if God himself shows up to tell you different you'll still assume you're right. This is the reason most of the intelligent people stop posting on this site. Good luck with working at Jiffy lube bud!
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
You mean Navistar should have to buy them back. Anyways there is no point to this conversation, you have an ignorant opinion and even if God himself shows up to tell you different you'll still assume you're right. This is the reason most of the intelligent people stop posting on this site. Good luck with working at Jiffy lube bud!
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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Deleting the EGR makes the truck unregisterable in many places!
Depends on how you do it
Deleting the EGR makes the truck unregisterable in many places!
Depends on how you do it
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VT365:
http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20233
Quote:
Now I already know this is a previously subj that has been beaten to death but I am curious to how many times have you had a EGR Cooler replaced on the same engine.
We have a 2005 BE with the VT-365 that was just towed to the shop for its sixth (6) blown cooler. This last time the cooler blew so bad that all the hot coolant / exhaust gasses in the cooling system actually melted the inside of the expansion tank, reshaped the filler cap opening and then blew the cap completly off the tank. Since the engine is still under warranty we just send it off to get repaired and within 6 months its time for a new one. So I am asking how may times have you sent the same bus in for a new cooler. Can anyone top 6?
But I thought only the 6.0L PSD had issues..........
Seriously, this is a Navistar problem. Ford is certainly to blame for the programming screw-ups that may have lead to early injector failures, but I've said that from the beginning. But the BIG problem, and the source of most failures is a common trait among all versions of the engine and transcends the entire tenure of the engine in service, regardless of the ludicrous arguments made earlier about Ford's power output changes being the culprit (and my post on this has yet to be responded to I noticed.....).
Food for thought: Maybe the truck/bus/coach mechanics just don't [censored] about the failures as much on the Internet?
http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20233
Quote:
Now I already know this is a previously subj that has been beaten to death but I am curious to how many times have you had a EGR Cooler replaced on the same engine.
We have a 2005 BE with the VT-365 that was just towed to the shop for its sixth (6) blown cooler. This last time the cooler blew so bad that all the hot coolant / exhaust gasses in the cooling system actually melted the inside of the expansion tank, reshaped the filler cap opening and then blew the cap completly off the tank. Since the engine is still under warranty we just send it off to get repaired and within 6 months its time for a new one. So I am asking how may times have you sent the same bus in for a new cooler. Can anyone top 6?
But I thought only the 6.0L PSD had issues..........
Seriously, this is a Navistar problem. Ford is certainly to blame for the programming screw-ups that may have lead to early injector failures, but I've said that from the beginning. But the BIG problem, and the source of most failures is a common trait among all versions of the engine and transcends the entire tenure of the engine in service, regardless of the ludicrous arguments made earlier about Ford's power output changes being the culprit (and my post on this has yet to be responded to I noticed.....).
Food for thought: Maybe the truck/bus/coach mechanics just don't [censored] about the failures as much on the Internet?
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
You mean Navistar should have to buy them back. Anyways there is no point to this conversation, you have an ignorant opinion and even if God himself shows up to tell you different you'll still assume you're right. This is the reason most of the intelligent people stop posting on this site. Good luck with working at Jiffy lube bud!
So you reveal yourself to be a seagull...I expected as much.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
You mean Navistar should have to buy them back. Anyways there is no point to this conversation, you have an ignorant opinion and even if God himself shows up to tell you different you'll still assume you're right. This is the reason most of the intelligent people stop posting on this site. Good luck with working at Jiffy lube bud!
So you reveal yourself to be a seagull...I expected as much.
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Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
You mean Navistar should have to buy them back. Anyways there is no point to this conversation, you have an ignorant opinion and even if God himself shows up to tell you different you'll still assume you're right. This is the reason most of the intelligent people stop posting on this site. Good luck with working at Jiffy lube bud!
So you reveal yourself to be a seagull...I expected as much.
No, he's just a bit of a curmudgeon because as I said earlier, he's wrenched on hundreds of these things. And that's on top of all the regular DT466, Cummins ISM/ISX/ISB stuff he works on regularly.
That being said however, you haven't really responded to many of the points made, pictures posted....etc. You claimed at one point that the 6.0L PSD made 150+lb-ft more than the VT365. That was never touched on again and you just continued to call it a turd.
Slinging stones is one thing, but when you get called on it, at least have the decency to respond to the counter-points made to those stones. Nobody is saying the engine is perfect. Simply that:
A) It isn't as bad as you say it is
and
B) The Navistar version (VT365) is prone to the same issues.
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Right on... Get me his service records, I want to know the brand of filters, type and make of oil, what his service intervals were and so on. We'll have a little review. I work on both ford and International everyday along with all kinds of Cummins. You want an educated opinion? Come do my job and it will open your eyes to ignorant whiners that couldn't maintain the toilet paper in the powder room. I see what causes these issues, Emissions are fun, Cummins has their fair share of issues as well. To be honest with you Cummins takes more of my time than anything else. Are they JUNK? no they have issues. Most of the issues "created" are due to the negligence of the owner operator. Certain engines are prone to their OWN certain issues but many can be avoided. You say updates make the 6.0 reliable? well wow fella you should see the TSB's for every cummins engine, not to mention the calibration and warranty updates. All we are saying is don't shoot you mouth off from one reference. [censored] my TDI went back to VW for warranty work 11 times! Does that mean it is a POS? nope! I took it to another dealer and it has been rocking since. The previous dealership... well lets just say a truck mechanic shouldn't have to tell a car mechanic how to do his job.
Every new emission compliant engine has issues. You can't compare it to older engines. Tolerances are closer, pressures are higher, also the added emission components allow added issues to occur.
For the Econolines, I'm not sure. For the F-450's, I am: Filters were Motorcraft, oil was presumably also Motorcraft, maintained by the dealer per Ford's "severe service" maintenance schedule.
"Updates" do not make the 6.doh reliable...essentially re-engineering it does! Ford should have been required to buy back (at sticker price) and destroy every one of them.
You mean Navistar should have to buy them back. Anyways there is no point to this conversation, you have an ignorant opinion and even if God himself shows up to tell you different you'll still assume you're right. This is the reason most of the intelligent people stop posting on this site. Good luck with working at Jiffy lube bud!
So you reveal yourself to be a seagull...I expected as much.
No, he's just a bit of a curmudgeon because as I said earlier, he's wrenched on hundreds of these things. And that's on top of all the regular DT466, Cummins ISM/ISX/ISB stuff he works on regularly.
That being said however, you haven't really responded to many of the points made, pictures posted....etc. You claimed at one point that the 6.0L PSD made 150+lb-ft more than the VT365. That was never touched on again and you just continued to call it a turd.
Slinging stones is one thing, but when you get called on it, at least have the decency to respond to the counter-points made to those stones. Nobody is saying the engine is perfect. Simply that:
A) It isn't as bad as you say it is
and
B) The Navistar version (VT365) is prone to the same issues.
I don't have the patience to deal with morons. plain and simple. What do you do for a living? Engine work and diagnostics day in and day out? What is your education back ground and work history?
I also see that you have not responded to any of OVERK1LL's comments.
I also see that you have not responded to any of OVERK1LL's comments.
I also replace EGR coolers frequently on ISX (cm870 and 871), ISM (cm875 and 876), DT466EGR, VT365, VT275, MAXXFORCE 7, MAXXFORCE DT, MAXXFORCE 9/10, MAXXFORCE 13, MAXXFORCE 15 (0nly 1 so far) not to mention a whole other host of parts. Does that mean these engine are junk as well???? I could go on for hours about issues, simple fact is the farm tractor engines that ran on everything is in the past. If you want to run a diesel you are going to pay at some point. Also I think that I should mention that parts and labor on on these engines cost significantly more than that of the 6.0/VT365.
On another note did the mechanic who was repairing the coolers replace the screen in the oil cooler? Fords coolant plugged up the screens and reduced coolant flow through the EGR cooler (thus causing coolant to boil, it also plugged the oil coolers). So was the issue corrected properly to avoid the same failure occurring sooner? your opinions are moot without data and experience. Too many people complain at the first sign of that good old band wagon without having a valid opinion.
On another note did the mechanic who was repairing the coolers replace the screen in the oil cooler? Fords coolant plugged up the screens and reduced coolant flow through the EGR cooler (thus causing coolant to boil, it also plugged the oil coolers). So was the issue corrected properly to avoid the same failure occurring sooner? your opinions are moot without data and experience. Too many people complain at the first sign of that good old band wagon without having a valid opinion.
Take a breath boys.
A ton of stuff supports an opinion of the engines discussed. And it's not good.
But I would agree with a bit of "Internet Amplification", as you will not hear from the many satisfied owners who like their diesel.
And IMO having to remove mandated emissions equipment indicates a serious oversight by the engineers. Maybe the bean counters? But it should have never hit the street with something so prone to failure.
A ton of stuff supports an opinion of the engines discussed. And it's not good.
But I would agree with a bit of "Internet Amplification", as you will not hear from the many satisfied owners who like their diesel.
And IMO having to remove mandated emissions equipment indicates a serious oversight by the engineers. Maybe the bean counters? But it should have never hit the street with something so prone to failure.
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